Speaker 1 00:00:08 What's up, everyone. Welcome to the finance for physicians podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Raimi. Join me as we dig into what it looks like for physicians to begin using their finances as a tool to live better lives. You can learn more about our
[email protected] let's. Jump into today's episode. What's up guys. Thanks for joining me again. I am excited to talk today about a pretty big topic. It comes up. It seems like it comes up quite a bit. Uh, either in my work with, uh, with planning clients or just in general, it seems like a kind of a hot topic. And so the topic we're going to cover today is when you're married, whether or not you should combine your finances and maybe a little bit about what that looks like. So I'm excited to talk through this today. I know lots of different opinions on this and, uh, and we'll kind of talk through what that might look like.
Speaker 1 00:01:02 So let's jump into that now. Okay. So we're going to talk about managing finances as a married couple. And so we're, we're assuming you have, uh, tied the knot you're, you're married you and your spouse are, um, in it for the long haul. And, you know, there's, if you're early in on the game here, um, you know, usually at the very beginning, there's sometimes there's a question of whether or not to combine finances and you kind of knocked that out on the front end of, you know, pulling things together. Other times, I think people just have a lot going on and they just kind of keep things separate. Um, just haven't gotten around to it or whatnot. Uh, that's a common situation. And then in other cases, you, you, maybe you do work through that thought process and you're like, no, we're going to keep things separate.
Speaker 1 00:01:54 And, um, you you're, you're on down the road and, and moving on with life. So we're going to talk through, um, what the pros and cons are of combining versus not combining and maybe what that might look like for your marriage. So I think first of all, maybe we start with what are good reasons for separating finances. And I've had this conversation quite a bit with people, uh, or couples in, in my work. And it seems like, and even I've thought of these things myself in my own finances, but I think the big reasons that come up, uh, for people, um, wanting to keep their money separate, I think it's important to look at those and talk through those. So the big ones I hear coming up, maybe you want to keep some stuff private from your spouse, like gifts. This is Dale. I always hear the example being like, especially when the other spouse, when both spouses are present, this is always how it's worded.
Speaker 1 00:02:54 It's funny, hot. It gets worded differently depending on whether or not both spouses are present. When I'm both spouses are present in the conversation. Typically the reason here is I want to be able to surprise my spouse with gifts. And so I think it's important to have separate finances or at least a separate account so that I can make some purchases without them knowing about it. So that that's a pretty common reason. Another reason I hear is maybe, maybe I just want to spend without scrutiny or criticism or finger pointing or whatever, or another one. And this is not always, it's a little harder to get to this reasons. People aren't as comfortable sharing this, but another common reason is maybe there's unequal spending habits, or maybe even unequal income. Maybe, maybe one spouse makes a lot more than the other spouse or one spouse stays at home.
Speaker 1 00:03:59 And there's some, you know, deeper discomfort with that, that inequality of income or spending. And oftentimes that drives people to completely separated. Um, especially if both spouses are earning income. Another reason that comes up is maybe one spouse is better with money and the other spouse. And so, you know, why not have the spouse that's better with managing money and just go ahead and manage all the finances. And then another, this is probably the less, they definitely doesn't come up when both spouses are present typically, but this is kind of the other side of the spectrum of, I want to have separate finances to give gifts. Maybe I also want to have separate finances so that I can hide some spending that I don't want my spouse to know about. That's, that's also a reason that comes up a lot. So those are valid reasons and definitely worth considering.
Speaker 1 00:04:56 But I think so when it comes down to money is one of those, one of the biggies I would say in life and the biggies, what I mean, they either like in your marriage, they're going to either, you know how you navigate money, for instance, it's either going to pull you together or push you apart. And I think that's why this is so important to think about how you're going to do this is ideally you're, you know, if you want to stay married forever in, if you want to make it kind of a long-term thing you really need to think about, is this going to how you manage your finances? Is it going to pull you together or push you apart? And so I, I personally believe it is better to operate as one unit or kind of pull everything together in most cases. And I want to talk about why to kind of help you understand that.
Speaker 1 00:05:49 Now I understand there are, um, you know, there's definitely exceptions and tendencies and I respect different people have different views on things, but, um, I'm going to talk through kind of my reasoning behind this and hopefully clarify this a little bit more. So first reason I bring this up occasionally in conversation in podcast episodes, the Bible definitely clearly spells out that, you know, when you get married, it's like to become one or one flesh or one unit it's very clearly articulated in the Bible and multiple sections. I bring this up occasionally. I think when it comes down to big issues like this, everybody has their kind of ultimate source of reason or purpose. And that's mine. Now everybody obviously is, is I'm going to have your fair to have your own differing opinions on this. And I respect that completely. Um, but for me personally, I have to, when I really peel back the layers on things like this, like these, and, you know, with marriage or running, um, I'm gonna consult, you know, that that's going to be kind of my, you know, a big, huge piece of the puzzle is as far as how, what, what the advice is there.
Speaker 1 00:07:03 So it's definitely very clear in the Bible about operating as one unit and that bringing it's not even a negotiable thing. It's like, that's how it works. When you get married, you, when you know, to become one, you tie the knot, you operate as one flesh. That's, that's the way it works. That's the first reason. Second reason is just my own personal experience of transitioning from, you know, being single. And I was single for awhile while working and had, you know, multiple years of taking care of my finances and then early in marriage, and then now being married for quite a while, over 10 years now. Uh, and so my experiences over time have really reinforced this view of it's better to operate as one unit, as a single guy. I, uh, you know, operated as one unit, but there was no other, nobody else was looking at it.
Speaker 1 00:07:58 So there was some definite downsides there. And, you know, as I got married early on, it was a little bit of a challenge to kind of pull that together. But over time it's definitely pulled us together. And the third big reason that I personally believe this is better is just in watching our client's experiences. So I have the privilege of working with about a hundred, 125 families personally, and then our firm, uh, serves due to 25 to 50 families. And our experience has been very unanimously in favor of better outcomes. When come finances are combined kind of like completely and viewed as like one unit, it seems to really kind of pull people together. It also, and I'll talk more about this in a second. It also can shed light on some big major issues that are, are problematic. Now, I think they're in our experience, they're issues that needed to come up and it's something you to have to address eventually.
Speaker 1 00:09:05 And it's more the sooner, the better and part of these issues potentially could have come about because of, uh, having, you know, separate finances. So really if you look at it, like when I talk about, you know, one unit or one flesh or combining things really, um, I'm talking about like completely sharing everything together. So when I say, you know, I think it's better to have to operate your finances combined or together. What I mean is completely so like literally having everything as looking at it as one. So w you know, one, it's our money and our plan and our goals and our future, and in our decisions, our financial decisions. So you're viewing it as one unit, two people coming together to pull full resources and operate as one unit. And it allows you to really share everything together financially. I think, you know that, so that's just for clarification purposes.
Speaker 1 00:10:13 That's what I mean by kind of one operating as one. Now, when you start to look at the keys to a good marriage, I think this is important to kind of explore, like, what is, what are those characteristics that you look for in a good marriage? And going back to some of the issues I alluded to earlier, uh, when finances are separate, it makes it a lot easier and allows for some of these, these big issues to be kind of flying under the radar. It allows you to Dodge some of these, these big issues I'll talk through, and it really can cause some major problems, but the keys to having a good marriage, first of all, everybody knows these, but, you know, you gotta be communicative. You have, you gotta have a very open, conversational, or you have to talk about the big issues really is what it comes down to.
Speaker 1 00:11:11 You have to talk through the big issues and when you're operating finances as one, it really kind of like forces you to talk about the issues you kind of have to, which is a good thing. It's kind of painful. Sometimes everybody, I mean, everybody has selfish tendencies at times, and, um, I feel them, you know, myself, and, but when you really pull your money together, you're going to be forced to talk about, uh, big issues. And on the flip side, when you're not combining finances, you don't really have to talk about them as much. I mean, maybe they're to come up eventually, but you're, you're not, it's not pushing you to talk about issues. So I'll give you an example. Maybe one spouse, uh, has a likes to go to the track and bet on horse racing or something like that. And, um, maybe they know it's probably not the healthiest hobby and they know that their spouse will, um, would probably not approve of it.
Speaker 1 00:12:26 And so if they're operating finances completely separate, or, you know, they're, they're the only one looking at it, or they have their own separate accounts. Um, that's going to allow that sort of, um, issue to kind of fly under the radar. You're not going to really have to talk about it. And so it can now, you know, maybe you take care of the issue yourself and you work through it and that can happen, but it's a lot harder when you don't have anyone else seeing you. It's like you're in the dark a little bit. And so when you pull your finances together, it kinda like shines lights on things. And so it forces you to talk about it. So, um, same issue. You hit gambling a little bit. Maybe it's getting a little out of control, maybe not, but it's, it's something you are struggling with.
Speaker 1 00:13:14 And when you, as soon as you combine finances, you're going to be, um, it's going to come up. I mean, they're going to this other spouse is going to see it, and it's going to force conversations. They'll be painful potentially, but it's going to force you to address those issues and work through them much sooner than otherwise, because the light was shined on them. And that's generally a good thing for marriage. I think my experience with marriage is that it's, it's unreasonable to say, there's not going to be issues. It's just more about like, what are your flavors of issues going to be, you're going to have like, and even big things like you're going to run into major problems. Um, it's more about like how you're addressing them and or if you're even talking about them in the first place. And so operating as just kind of like one household unit financially, it's going to bring these topics definitely to the table much faster.
Speaker 1 00:14:11 The second big thing, if we're looking at like good marriages, characteristics, transparency is a big deal and which breeds trust. So transparency and trust kind of all together. I mean, I think everybody would agree. That's a good thing for marriage. And so when you operate as one unit, it's kind of like, so going back to some of the reasons you might not operate as one unit, uh, people will often say maybe one spouse spends too much money, or maybe we don't see eye to eye on things. And so often what happens is the spouse that is voicing these concerns. Like I am, I'm better with money and the other spouse spends too much money. It can be really when you peel back the layers, it's like, I don't trust them to, um, manage the money. So it's really when you're transparent with your finances, you're in a, in a lot of the ways saying, I trust you whenever you reveal all your stuff to anyone, it's an act of trust.
Speaker 1 00:15:22 And so whenever you hide things, it pulls you away from trust. And so operating as one unit, it's basically saying I'm completely transparent. Like all my stuff is here, it's together, you know, everything I know and it pools, it, it breeds a trust trustworthy in sort of set up. Whereas if you're separating them, it can cause even if there's no issues, even if there's no, uh, problems happening when your finances are separate, it's going to be, um, opaque, you know, the opposite of transparent. You're gonna, your mind might just go there. Like, I wonder what they're doing with their money. Or, you know, if your marriage starts having trouble, you're going to say, well, you know, maybe there's seeing someone else or, you know, spending their money on that. And I just, I wonder what what's happening there. And it can, it can really, um, cause problems there.
Speaker 1 00:16:18 Um, and so ideally you have that transparent setup and then there's the accountability aspect. So, and these all kind of go together. But when you share your stuff with someone and you're talking about things and you're everybody has their challenges, like the, the gambling thing, like everybody has their stuff. I mean, nobody's, nobody's perfect back. We're far from perfect. And so when you have those issues, if, if you're, um, sharing everything, it's there, if you're sharing everything in there, you're also doing it in a loving way. There's going to be accountability that comes with having, uh, you know, a teammate, you know, when you're operating with your spouse and they're going to help you to navigate some of the tricky aspects of life. And so if, say for example, you're, you know, you're a spender. And so one view would say, well, if, if I'm a spender, then maybe we need to keep funniest as separate because I'm going to cause problems.
Speaker 1 00:17:24 Uh, it's going to cause problems if we combine finances because my spouse is a saver. And so why not let my spouse have their accounts separate so that they can do their saving thing. And then I'll have my accounts separate so that I can do my spending thing. I make my money, they make their money. And that's going to allow, it's kind of restrict me from spending their money. That makes sense. I mean, it sounds reasonable, but the problem is you're coming from a stance of their money, my money. And also there's not really much. That's kind of like acknowledging I'm a spender and I'll always be a spender, but another way to look at it is, well, um, you know, maybe I have spending tendencies, I'm a spender. My spouse is a saver, but what if, uh, by combining the aspect of sharing things and talking about it actually makes me less, you know, less of a spender, um, I am improved or a better version of myself because of the fact that, that someone else is looking at my finances.
Speaker 1 00:18:31 And also I myself know that someone might even be looking at my finances. And that helps me to kind of think a little bit more about it. Because a lot of times when you're a spender, for example, you just, sometimes you just need a little tiny thing to help you make a big improvement in that might only just be like somebody else might be looking at my finances and seeing what I'm doing. So, um, there's two views on all this stuff. I think accountability is a very good thing when you, as long as you're doing it in a loving manner and not an accountability, you know, you can easily slip into like finger pointing, so you don't want to go there, but accountability definitely will help, um, in a marriage. And I think most people would agree. It's, it's a good thing. And then there's the equality aspect when you're pulling your finances together and you're operating as one unit, it kinda like helps dissolve some of those natural issues.
Speaker 1 00:19:27 So going back to some of the reasons I mentioned, why people maybe don't combine finances, big one that comes up is my spouse makes more money than I do. I make less money. And so that can be, you know, a challenging topic. And when, when you operate finances separately, and especially when you're completely separate and it's like, you spend your money, I spend my money. Um, it can, it can amp that up. Even it can make it worse. Whereas when you're operating, you just say, we're going to combine everything and we're going to look at it as our money. It's kind of like saying to your spouse, like you're valued, you're an equal, basically you're an equal shareholder to everything. So we're, we're 50 50 in on this. And we'll give, you know, view it as if we're one unit and we both can, you know, we contribute different amounts, but it's, it's not, it's not, uh, you're not slicing the pie based on your contribution percentages.
Speaker 1 00:20:31 So when you separate finances, it can amp up, you know, make worse. Those concerns about, are we really equal here? Like, are they better than me because they make more money? Uh, are they, am I undervalued? And those are common things. Often people don't talk about, but they're definitely they're normal. Uh, but what the question is, how do you, how does it affect us? So I think when you pull the money together, it says to your spouse, we're a team and we're equal. It doesn't matter that one, you make more, I make more, or you spend more, I spend more, we're going to view it as one either way. And so that's a non-issue and I think that helps, helps to establish more equality in your marriage. And I think the last big one I'll point out that is a good characteristic of marriage is just compromise.
Speaker 1 00:21:24 Compromise is not easy. It's, uh, you know, everybody wants to get their way, like completely. Um, I'm guilty of that, especially, I'm a very, um, hard headed dude, but it's something that you have to have in marriage is good compromise. And so when you operate finances separately, it's, it's a lot easier to just kind of skip the compromise and just do your thing and operate how you're gonna operate. And you don't get to work out that compromise muscle. It is kind of like a muscle. Whereas when you're combining finances, it's gonna pull you together. And it's also going to force you to talk through things. So for example, my wife and I had a recent little project we did on the house and, and it was, we had to talk about it. I mean, it was like it's coming from one account and we had, we had to talk about it and we had to compromise on what project we did first and how much we were going to spend on it.
Speaker 1 00:22:28 Uh, it was all, it was going to be coming from the same account. We had to talk through it. It was kind of like a forced compromise, whereas it would have been very easy to just kind of do it and move on and, and, um, you know, there's no, there's not, you're not going to have to compromise. So when you start to really combine finances, I think on the front end, you can often ask yourself, you know, you might think, well, does that mean I have to like give on everything? Does that mean I can't be myself anymore? Like, am I going to have to give up my identity and self and all that? I don't think that's the case. I could say. That's definitely what you're going to think on the front end, but really in reality, you're not, you know, being forced to be identical to the, to your spouse.
Speaker 1 00:23:11 It's more just like you're going to find your unique strengths and gifts and bring those to the table and share responsibility. And it's more of a divide and conquer set up and it allows you to actually, it actually allows you to be better, I think, and not it doesn't pull you down. And that that's definitely been my experience. So if we're, if we're talking through, this is kind of big picture, a lot of ideas, but I think I, I, I think it might be helpful just to start to look at what some action items might be. Um, if this makes sense to you, um, and combining finances, pulling, pulling finances together, operating as one unit, if that makes sense to you, we'll talk through some, some action steps that that might help you, um, start to go down that road or, you know, maybe you're not sure, and you can kind of try some of these out and see how it works.
Speaker 1 00:24:05 So I think the first big action step is this is especially the case. If you are completely separate now, and you're gonna try to combine things. I think the first thing I would encourage is just, you got to talk with your spouse, talk through the big issues and, um, make sure you're kind of rooting out things first. And sometimes there's going to be some extra work required to get through some of those big issues before you really are ready to combine finances. So what I'm talking about, for example, let's say one, spouse has some, um, some bad, really bad habits and they've been ongoing for forever. Uh, and they haven't really shared it with the other spouse. That's going to oftentimes take some like extra work or therapy or a lot of conversations first before you just kind of throw it all in and combine things.
Speaker 1 00:25:08 Or maybe there's some income inequality, and you've been doing it this way for a long time. And maybe you don't feel like you're being valued as a stay at home spouse or lower income earning spouse. And you ha you have some like deeper pain associated with that. A lot of times that's going to take, you know, maybe some at minimum, multiple conversations and possibly like really digging into understanding that and making sure you work through that first, before you just jump into combining finances. So first thing I would always suggest is talk through the big issues. Like, um, you know, what is it going to look like if you combined finances? Why, what would be, what are the reasons you have not combined finances in the first place when you combine finances, what are going to be some of the issues that come about and talk through those with your spouse, make sure you can root out any of the big things first.
Speaker 1 00:26:03 Now let's say you're, you know, you've, you've kind of moved through all those another, you know, kind of a first entry level step to doing this is just having combining checking accounts. Like ideally you have, you know, just one checking account for everything or one joint checking account for everything like day-to-day spending wise. And you kind of get rid of all the little individual accounts. Maybe you have, you know, two separate, completely separate individual accounts. And you're just combining those into one joint account. Or maybe you have a joint account with most expenses in separate accounts with some little stuff that you can have separate. What I'm saying is you're moving towards just having one checking account that is used for all the household day-to-day spending. And the key to this is without judgment. You're pulling it together, you know, without judgment. And I think everybody's at different levels of this.
Speaker 1 00:27:01 Um, and this is also like a lifelong thing. Maybe you're on board with combining finances and you've been working towards this, but it's, you're kind of in the middle of that process. You can always take steps towards this. And if you have that old individual account you've had for forever, and you're just kind of hanging onto that, and maybe you throw in the towel on that and pull it into just running through your joint account. The third big thing I think everybody can work on. This is discuss having regular conversations with your spouse about finances. That's always helpful. And when you're operating completely as one unit, you're, it's a little easier to kind of be on the same page. But, um, if you're in transition, you can kind of make that up bigger. Topic of conversation is like, how are we going to continue to move that direction?
Speaker 1 00:27:53 And then when you start to talk about like bigger picture planning or goal setting, or say, you're thinking about like a big purchase, like a new car or a big project on the house involving your spouse and like the planning and the goal setting and the priorities and all that is huge. Now you're not going to always be on the same page. This is where compromise and all that comes into play, but you got to start somewhere and just involving, you know, making the effort to involve your spouse, or if you're working with us, like having both spouses present, especially in like these conversations where we're talking about, you know, what's most important, where are you, where are you going? What's what's how are we prioritizing goals? I think that's a big, huge step in that direction of, you know, pulling together. And then as you're communicating and as you're talking, is this something, um, so it's easy to say, it's, it's hard to actually do this, but giving the other spouse the opportunity to speak.
Speaker 1 00:28:56 And then listening, I say this, I'm talking to myself. I mean, it's, it's, it's sometimes difficult to slow down and listen and allow your stuffs to speak, especially when, so I'm a financial planner and my wife stays at home with our kids. And it's very easy for me to just kind of roll through financial stuff, but it's much better to take a time out and allow your spouse to speak and really focus on like listening and, you know, soaking in what they have to say, because it's important. But the last big thing that I'll mention about as far as action items, maybe even compromise more often than you're used to. So this is a compromising thing is like a lifelong job. All of these are like lifelong challenges. You can't just like one day start doing all these things perfectly. I mean, it's impossible. So I, everybody's going to be working on these, you know, you're going to kind of be gravitating one way or the other for your entire life.
Speaker 1 00:30:00 So maybe on compromising, you're working towards compromising more than you have in the past. That's kind of like listening and giving your spouse the opportunity to speak. It's challenging sometimes to compromise and let give on certain issues, especially when you feel strongly about them, but try it out. Like just, you know, maybe try out compromising on a big, bigger issue. Like let, let it get, um, that's a healthy, most people. I mean, most people struggle with this in not compromising enough. So I'm kind of going under that assumption that if you're struggling with not compromising enough, maybe you work on compromising more and it's going to your spouse will definitely, you know, it'll pull you together by doing this. Um, and I don't think, you know, it's not going to cause problems typically. So I think if you can work towards this, the real benefits it's going to pull you together, allow you to be, you know, a better version of yourself allows you to become less selfish, learn to compromise.
Speaker 1 00:31:13 It's as I've mentioned, it's a definitely a lifelong challenge marriage in general and finances really. You're never going to be perfect, but it's something every once in a while kind of take a time out and say, how am I doing all this work on some of these small things. And over time, it'll really start to pull you in the right direction. All right, guys, thanks for joining me today. And I'm hope this has been helpful and we will look forward to catching up again next time as always, thank you so much for joining us today. If you found this valuable, please give us a review on iTunes and share with a friend. Also check out our
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