When to Hire a Financial Planner

Speaker 0 00:00:08 What's up everyone. Welcome to the finance for physicians podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Raimi. Join me as we did into what it looks like for physicians to begin using their finances as a tool to live better lives. You can learn more about our [email protected] let's. Jump into today's episode, Speaker 1 00:00:26 Jeff. What's up. We get to meet again and chat, chat about some fun personal finance stuff. You've decided chatting about personal finance is my passion. He's not lying. He's serious. I am. I love it too. It's we're we're uh, we're definitely, definitely like to geek out on this kind of, um, uh, we, we talked last time about, uh, getting your ducks in a row with PSLF we'll switch gears a little bit. W the question that we had come up was when is it a good time to think about hiring a financial planner? So if we're thinking about, um, someone, maybe that's never worked with a financial planner before, uh, w when should you be thinking about potentially hiring that sort of help? Speaker 2 00:01:09 I think there's a, a lot of, a lot of, I don't want to maybe head trash that's out there that, uh, that says, I don't know if I'm the right fit for this. And, uh, you know, questions of, am I just too simple for working with a financial planner? Is there enough here to get any value out of, or am I too complicated? And the other big one is, you know, I haven't, you know, even saved up anything yet. Do I have enough money to, for a financial planner to help? And I think that, you know, that kind of starts to, when you're looking at that question of, when am I ready to work with a financial planner? You know, it, it, it's one of those things that's kind of normal to think about is a financial planner. We think of using money, right. Finances. And so if I don't have any finances and I, I'm not ready for a financial planner, right. I guess maybe what are a few people that you've seen, or a few cases that are good, a good time to start working with Speaker 1 00:02:04 Financial planners? I think part of it is situational or preference going back to talking about not having finances worthwhile to seek out help. Um, I would argue that, um, if you're, if you want help the sooner, the better, because really where, where do you, I guess the question is where do you, where do people get their ultimate wealth? And I think the answer is most cases from their income every once in a while people inherit money. But a lot of times, people, at least the people we're we're working with oftentimes are accumulating their wealth from their income. And so that's like human capital determined terminology would be how much you're going to make from now until you stop working that in my experiences where the big impact decisions really happen. Um, in a lot of times you set the tone on the front end with that. Speaker 1 00:02:58 So a lot of the habits you set early on in starting to earn money is going to dictate how much wealth you ultimately have or older and retired. And so there's a little bit of, um, I think this mentality that it's like, um, I probably need help when I have all the wealth, but I think because we have worked with people with plenty of wealth, um, and we've worked with people early on, I think the people early on it feels, at least for me, I don't know what your experience has been. Both of us are financial planners have been doing it for a while. I enjoy working with the young people the most, because there's impact, like there's much bigger impact in that early, you know, early stage, like early career decisions, setting in foundational habits versus the people that are older and already have the wealth. I mean, they've already done a lot of the hard work. Is that been your experience? Speaker 2 00:03:45 Yeah. I think you kind of what you kind of bring up there is there are different kind of life transitions that kind of lend themselves to, to extra planning topics too. And one of those is, you know, I'm going from being in training to getting my first deal. Real. A lot of people call my first big boy or big girl job. I've had a lot of residents say that to me, um, transitioning into attending, but, um, you know, I say, I want to get this right from the beginning so that I can build a foundation that's flexible later. And I think that's one, one time that it makes a lot of sense to engage somebody that has just, you know, a lot of this, um, that understands, you know, all the types of plans that are out there, at least getting things set up from the, from the get-go. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:04:32 Yeah. I think also, um, you have to be ready or maybe willing to seek help. Uh, some, some of us I've been person plenty of times in my past are not ready or willing to get help for, for certain things. Like, for example, this morning, uh, I had a note on my kitchen counter from my wife because I wake up really early and she's like, please fix dishwasher. I'm like, oh, no. Uh, so I, at first I'm like, I'm not really willing or ready to pay somebody to come fix my dishwasher. Cause I just, I just want to myself. And so I started fiddling with it and spent about 30 minutes. It was the drainage issue or something. And after 30 minutes I was getting nowhere and I'd tried like three things and it got to the point where I was going to have to like, do something like start Googling. Speaker 1 00:05:25 Are you? I don't know. Um, and so I threw in the towel, I'm like, this is, I am now willing and ready to go find somebody that knows what they're doing and pay them a fair wage to help me work through this issue. So sometimes I never get there with things. Sometimes people, people have different styles too. Like some of us are like hyper DIY wires. And some of us are like, like my brother-in-law, for instance, he would have never even touched the dishwasher. He wouldn't even open it to kind of look in the bottom. He would have called somebody versus other types would be like spending 10 hours trying to figure it out or not stop until they get it done themselves. So that plays into it as well. Like what's what type of person are you, do you lean towards seeking help? Are you ready to pay for good help? And if so, uh, you know, maybe that's that's the right time in itself. Speaker 2 00:06:17 Yeah. I think maybe what we should get into a little bit is that there are different types of financial planning relationships out there. You probably think of one thing when you think of financial planning in your head and, uh, usually involves investing. That does the kind of what, every time I tell someone I'm a fancy financial planner, they asked me about the local bank stock, really. Speaker 1 00:06:41 He lives in a small town, so Speaker 2 00:06:43 Yeah, local bank stock or early on in the pandemic was, Hey, I think there's going to be a lot of shipping out there. Do you know any good cardboard companies that I could invest in Jeff? Yeah, Speaker 1 00:06:53 I was riding, I was walking yesterday and I ran into a neighbor and he's like, you're in finance. Right. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. And that's always him. He's like, I just, just got into doing options trading. What do you think? And I'm a little crazy, you know, but that was the conversation was going individual securities trading stocks, Speaker 2 00:07:11 I guess you might have an idea in your mind of what it looks like to work with a financial planner, but you know, there are different options out there, right? Um, like with your plumbing issue of the dishwasher, you know, you probably have a couple of different options there. You can do it all yourself, which you mentioned, you could kind of really dive into Google and YouTube. There's probably a video there. It might be close to your dishwasher and you might be able to fix it. You can call somebody that's going to help out for a while, get things set up and kind of on track and kind of learn from them and then maintain things yourself. Like, are you going to continue to have this person come out on an annual basis and say, Hey, take a look at my dishwasher, you know, three times a year, whether, you know, whether it's seems to be operating okay or not, or you might have that type of kind of maintenance schedule. Right? Like, um, I found with my air conditioning and heating systems that it makes a lot of sense to have an annual, you know, kind of tune up. Speaker 1 00:08:08 Yeah. Yeah. So going back to the investments thing, I think a lot of people think like I need to have a sizable balance or whatever to be ready, but like how much of our time, I mean, in reality, we work with people with plenty of investments and then some people with none, but like we're financial planners. How much of your time Jeff is spent actually talking or digging into Speaker 2 00:08:33 It's a small amount overall? Yeah. Speaker 1 00:08:35 I would say less than 25% confidently for me. And I would guess it's that sounds high. Yeah. It's definitely on the high end. We don't do. I mean, most of our time is not spent on investments. There's just not that much. I mean, that's the least value add, not the least it's on the low end of the value, add totem pole, I guess, for what we do. A lot of what people need or want help in, in a day to day basis is like the, just getting stuff, done that from, for one thing, it's just like getting stuff done. So going back to the air conditioning example, like, you know, changing your air filter, that's one of those things that's like little and annoying and, but you know, you need to do it and it's kind of repetitive. Um, that's like, uh, there's a lot of tasks that we do that are like that. Speaker 1 00:09:25 And part of what we do is just help people get stuff done that they know they need to do, but probably is or annoyed to do it, or don't really want to do it or have trouble getting around to it. We're helping, you know, like we look at their tax return. Most people, it's interesting how many people just give their accountant, their, uh, their policy stuff or they input it in TurboTax and they never actually look at the tax return itself. We're financial planners. Jeff probably doesn't understand this. I mean, I've always looked at my tax return and like scour through it and look for inefficiencies from most, a lot of people don't. And so, you know, we're as financial planners, like looking at tax returns, uh, probably more than we are investments. Speaker 2 00:10:09 I think that's probably a good clarification too, is because we do deal a lot with the tech side and implications of, of how these investments work, I guess, you know, whether it's a retirement plan or wherever they're at. Yeah. So that, I guess kind of coming back to that, let's keep talking about air conditioning. It's summer here is in the nineties with 90% humidity in my area recently. And we turned on the air conditioning. We, we, for whatever reason, we pride ourselves in not turning on air conditioning in my community. It's like, yeah, it's August. And my neighbor is telling me that they only had their air conditioning on once. And I'm like, oh yeah, we got a few more days, but you know, I've got kids. So it has to be, ours is on like all day, every day, but the air conditioning, right? Like you talked about the maintenance things that go into that, the changing though, the filter real, you know, does your air conditioning still work? If you don't change the filter, eventually Speaker 1 00:11:02 It doesn't. I get earned. Speaker 2 00:11:05 So eventually, you know, it may really get gummed up and kind of grind to a halt. But yeah, I mean, you could probably go a good while without changing your filter and your house still gets cooled down. It's not, you might catch a disease. Well, don't go live at Daniel's house then. But, um, yeah. Speaker 1 00:11:21 I D I've had some HPAC guys tell me some more, Speaker 2 00:11:25 But yeah, I mean, so it still cools down. It still does its job. It's just not as efficient. And maybe it costs a little more in the, uh, in the dragon energy efficiency. Right. You're paying more in electricity each month because of it. But you know, kind of that's where taking some of these steps, even as you're building and starting off and growing wealth would be a lot of times there's an argument out there that the backdoor Roth IRA, is it worth my time to do it or whatnot. It's one of those little efficiency things that it's going to save taxes as you go. Yeah. But you know, it's not the worst thing in the world if you don't ever do it. That's my favorite phrase. It's not the worst thing in the world, Speaker 1 00:12:02 But it's a pretty stinking bad, but it's not good either. Right? No, that's a good, yeah. Example, a backdoor Roth IRA. So back to a Roth IRA is it's kind of a, it's such a good example because it involves all the different facets of what we do. Um, it involves doing something that's kind of like admin minutiae, monotonous. Like there's a lot of like tasks that you have to do to get it done that are kind of not so exciting and very admin, like checking the check boxes type stuff. So that's one component of it, but then there's also this like technical component of it. And then on top of it, it can get a little confusing. It's just not very straight forward. So I see people struggle with different aspects of that in different occasions. Uh, and going back to the original question, like the, getting into what we're talking about now, like some of these things, like if you're, if you are not getting around to something like a backdoor Roth, that adds up to a lot of money, like there's, you know, I would argue it's like two grand a year per individual. Speaker 1 00:13:07 I think that's a safe, uh, value metric to put on the value, add of a Roth for the typical physician in practice, you know, worth in the 1500 to 2,500 a year range. Let's just say 2000 a year tax value range consult your tax advisor. I'm going out in tax numbers. But like, I think it's worth a lot of money basically. And that's for an individual when you have a couple it's, you know, double those numbers. And so it, you want to get them done. Ideally, if you could, if you're in the right situation and it's a very good tax shelter to, to knock out. So if you're not getting around to it, or maybe you're unsure if it's getting done correctly or the complexity is intimidating, or you're not looking at your tax return, the verify that it was done, um, those are good. Speaker 1 00:13:54 Those are not happening. Those are good reasons to be thinking about hiring a financial planner because, or if you're just tired of dealing, because we're just gonna like, make sure it has, or do it for you really, like we're going to like take that kind of thing off your plate, but it's not for everybody on the other hand, if you're like, I got it. Like I got my checklist, I have my calendar marked, um, I know exactly where it's going. I check the check boxes, it gets done. I reviewed the tax return, make sure it gets done correctly. In fact, I do my own tax return. I have something incorrectly. It gets done correctly then like you, you're probably, I mean, you may not need to hire a financial planner in that specific area, especially, um, unless you just want to, so that's just one little piece of the puzzle of what we do. Speaker 1 00:14:41 I think organization is another big thing. Some people struggle with with finances is just keeping it all organized. So I think of, I was working on this earlier today. I think this, this, uh, client is fairly organized in general, but like they just, um, have a hard time keeping their finances. They have a lot going on. So they didn't know exactly what their beneficiary designation, the retirement plans we were, uh, going into their retirement account and accounts and verifying their contingent beneficiaries and making sure it lines up with their estate plan. So that's like a small, you know, kind of organizational planning, sort of a thing, but can have huge impacts if not addressed, uh, that is very easy to overlook. And so if those kinds of things are falling through the cracks, maybe that's time to think about hiring help. Speaker 2 00:15:31 Yeah. So what are the different ways that you could engage with a financial planner? Speaker 1 00:15:36 Yeah, so really there's so many different ways Speaker 2 00:15:40 That wasn't fair. One Speaker 1 00:15:41 Of the, I guess, yes, that's a benefit of our profession. It's also a problem within our profession. Like there's so many, like the majority of financial planners, you kind of engage with them as like a salesperson. That's not how we work in our flavor of financial planning in our business, but like, I don't know. What do you think? Do you know if like 90% of the industry has like a, or maybe 95% of the industry has some sales component, uh, for what they do? So you're engaging with them as a salesperson, you know, to kind of provide you, help you to purchase a financial product. So that's one way to work with a financial planner is just in a product purchasing engagement where they're earning commission to kind of sell it to you. I argue that you shouldn't be able to call yourself a financial planner advisor if you're working in that capacity, but the, uh, regulators have not, uh, come on board with that idea yet. Now that's one way. I think you're biased about that though. I'm very biased, Speaker 2 00:16:37 But how, how do you tell if you're in that type of a, a relationship or really great question? How do you tell if it's somebody that's paid on commission or, um, it's impossible. They're selling stuff. It's not, it's not impossible. How do you do it? Very difficult. You know, telltale signs, Speaker 1 00:16:55 Well, telephone lines. They have, um, I mean the easiest one is they're not charging you. So that's almost always a, I mean, I would be shocked if there was an engagement where you're getting free. Like that's what people say, but that's not, it's like really what's happening is they say, they're giving you free financial advice, but in reality, they're selling you stuff. So what, I'm not saying this stuff's bad or good. It's just, that's a sign. Another symptom would be, they sought you out. We were talking about referrals the other other day, Jeff and I, financial advisors are notorious for being like you're in a meeting with them. You're a lot. And they're like, Hey, uh, who are your five closest friends? And what are their cell phone number and call them and harass them about hiring me. That's a sales approach. Exactly what they say. Speaker 1 00:17:43 No, I used to be that guy. So I know what they say, that they use much cleaner language, uh, and make it sound really, but it's still aggressive. It's very, they are aggressive and try to get connected and go and call those other people and solicit them and try to get their business. That approach is very, it's a sales model, you know, it's aggressive. Um, so if you kind of got into contact with your person that away odds are, they're a sales person, versus if they're in a non sales set up, usually they, like, we don't do that in our business. We don't go after people, people reach out to us. And then I guess you could just ask them, but I don't trust our industry in general. It's not just a trust thing. It's just, um, we use lots of terminology, so it gets confusing. So it would be easy to say like, yes, I'm providing advice and that'd be the truth, but also selling you products. Do you have a like concrete easier way to verify that Jeff? Cause I'm not thinking of it. Speaker 2 00:18:39 Yeah. I about verifying it. It's tough because like you said, even if you ask, there's usually some kind of a spin that says, Hey, this is a great thing. How about you just Speaker 1 00:18:49 Email us what's happening? And we can look up the firm, like tell us the firm name, the business's name and, uh, what's going on. And we can tell you if it's a sales operation in some cases. Yeah. I'd Speaker 2 00:19:02 Say red flag would be, if it seems like it's free advice, if it seems like there's no component to it that you're paying for that it's, that's a red flag anyway. Yeah. Yeah. If they talk Speaker 1 00:19:13 About insurance a lot and insurance, particularly. Speaker 2 00:19:17 Yeah. Permanent. Yeah. And that's a whole nother soap box, but um, not that all insurance is bad, it's, it's very useful. But uh, if it, if they sell insurance, that's a, a potential like there that, that there's just a conflict. Yeah. And Speaker 1 00:19:31 That is not. So just to clarify, like, I don't think that's necessarily bad. Um, what I get frustrated about in our industry and part of where I'm going to bash our industry is about the misleading aspect. So if you're a sales person, like say you're a sales person and I, and I think that's fine, but when you say I'm an advice provider, and then you like backdoor sales, I think that's where the, so you can work with a sales person. You in some cases need to work with a salesperson, but as a no, when you, Speaker 2 00:20:03 How about a more positive note? What's a better, I mean, again, I think we're going to be a little biased in this because we already subscribed to this type of idea, but what's that what's a better way to engage a financial planner. Well, I think Speaker 1 00:20:15 A better ways to pay for it. Yeah. But it's funny when we talked to some people they're like, you mean I have to pay for it. And I think when that happens, it's usually a person that has worked with a free financial advisor. Yeah. I mean, if you're paying for advice, I think that's the best way to work with somebody it's fee for service. And there's a bunch of different ways to work with a fee for service advice provider. But I think the first thing is you want to pay for it. And ideally you're only paying them fees and not having any of that sales component. I think that minimizes conflict. Speaker 2 00:20:51 And so I guess in that, in that model where you're paying a financial advisor, do you have to work with one forever? Does it make sense to be ongoing and last for a long time or forever? Say I came to that decision that yes. I would like to work with financial planner now, what am I? Yep. You always Speaker 1 00:21:11 Need help for now. Just it's it's flexible. I think that's a misconception in reality. You, it depends on, um, well, if there are, if they're financial advisors requiring you to work with them forever, first of all, that's a red flag. Okay. Fair enough. So that's a problem, I guess there's probably some people out there that lock people in like that, but in reality, like, no, you don't have to get married to your advisor. Um, you can, and you can switch every year. You can have one for a year and then peace out and then get one in, uh, you know, three years later. And there's no, um, no, lock-ins, there shouldn't be lock-ins in fact, we try to make it as flex in our specific setup. We try to make it as flexible as possible. Um, where there's, if you don't want to work with a financial planner, you know, no problem. It's all good. But yeah, it's definitely, shouldn't be locked Speaker 2 00:22:03 In, I guess, as I go back to our, our experiences with, you know, fixing up household items, uh, the dishwasher and the air conditioner. I mean, you, you could work with that, a repairman, right. For your dishwasher for a day, or, you know, just to get things sorted out. Yep. And then, you know, there's probably maintenance that you should do. I don't have a dishwasher. That's one of our, one of the, I know it's contentious in my marriage. Hopefully we are. And he has three kids. Yeah. We are. We are looking at a kitchen remodel that will require a dishwasher here next. Uh, but that'll be life-changing. Yeah. We had one for about a year when we lived in our apartment 10 years ago and it was just the two of us, but, um, yeah. Well, we are getting way off track now that I know dishwasher, but yeah. Speaker 2 00:22:51 So I, my assumption here though, is that ideally you're, you're doing a little bit of maintenance on that, you know, throughout the year, at least there are things that you do to keep the drain clear. Right. You know, I know like you don't want to put junk in the dishwasher. Oh, do I have stories from our one year of having a dishwasher? And we also didn't have a garbage disposal and we put celery down that that's not a good idea that makes a fountain of celery by the way. And so follow us for more home tips, but, um, yeah, Speaker 1 00:23:21 We are not home experts. We are financial experts, so we're getting into our, Speaker 2 00:23:27 Yeah. So there's a reason to make sure that there's some expertise in the person to work with. But back to the whole idea here is that, you know, you can get things sorted out and have a, you know, somebody, an expert that comes in and looks at things and gets them, you know, on the right track. And then you kind of take over from there once you feel comfortable that that things are on the right track. Um, you know, I might have a harder time fixing my dishwasher or I'm looking out at my grass right now and it's gets sadder and sadder every year. I can probably maintain the grass, but I might be able to use somebody to help me plant it the first time landscape, you know? And so if that's you, you know, that, that could be one way of working with financial advisor, let's sit down and, and have a kind of one time or, or several months or several, just a year long relationship and then take it over from there. Speaker 1 00:24:17 Yup. That'd be kind of like a transactional, like kind of one-time get your ducks in a row. Speaker 2 00:24:23 Yeah. You can, you know, have kind of the maintenance plan that goes along with it. If you are like me and you're in for getting to do your, your shower drains, you know, if you're not cleaning those out and they back up cause you're in an old house, a classic house, a classic house. Yeah. And Speaker 1 00:24:39 I think the, uh, kind of the ongoing maintenance thing is hard to, uh, know sometimes if you want something like that versus just kind of a one-time deal. And um, like you're, it's okay to not know either because there's a lot of people. Well, I mean, I don't know a lot of times when I'm going DIYers, somebody for something and I don't, um, tell me what the differences are and that's okay. People ask that of us all the time, the different service model. But I think the ongoing thing is money is kind of personal or very personal for some. And so it's something, um, I don't think a lot of people are jazzed about having to switch financial planners or advisors like every year or so. Um, it's kinda like your physician, like, I don't particularly enjoy having an initial consult with a new primary care provider. Like I've switched general practitioners a few times, like my primary doctor a few times, but it's not like my favorite thing. And so ideally like I personally I've gone the direction for me, like have a concierge, sort of a ongoing maintenance sort of, uh, set up for my healthcare provider just because I want to keep the same person and I want more kind of hands-on attention, but everybody's different. And that's, that's the thing. That's what it comes down. Anything else to add, Jeff? Speaker 2 00:25:58 No, I think we've hit on a little bit about, I guess the ways you can work with a financial advisor back to the original question. Oh yeah, it did. Was it win? Yeah. Are there any other times that you would seek out help? I mean, you are a financial advisor, but um, people seeking help. Yeah. I mean, usually Speaker 1 00:26:16 It's situational, but you know, I think it's just, um, it doesn't hurt to ask someone like a financial planner if it's time, a lot of people reach out to us and say, I'm not sure if it's there and then we can kind of, we're not going to be able to say yes, it's the right time or no, because we're like going to be biased towards yes. So usually in those conversations, I try to lay out like the more, because what it comes down to is educating yourself and having the information enough information to make a good decision. This is a difficult question to answer or impossible to answer for everyone because we just don't you have going on. So, um, sometimes it just takes a one-on-one conversation with a potential financial planner and say, you know, I'm thinking about it, but I'm not sure of the timing. Like here's what I got going on. And then ideally they lay out the pros and cons and put you in a better spot. Other than that, I think I lean towards sooner the better, but of course, uh, that's what a financial planner. Speaker 2 00:27:15 Yeah. Yeah. I'm biased too. I think the sooner, the better, especially as you're starting, I mean, we're talking to a wonderful group of physicians here. Right. You know, as you're starting into your career or even if you've been in there for, you know, five, 10 years, and you've kind of got things going and want to take a look at it a good time to at least start the conversation and it doesn't have to be a forever type of relationship. Are there any times that you can think of in a normal physician's kind of career stage that maybe it's not the right time? Yeah. Speaker 1 00:27:47 I mean the middle of as an agency, when you are on a routine and there's not much changing, that's usually, unless you just have some specific things to talk about, that's usually not the best time, just because there's not much going on and you don't have a lot of time spare time to put into it. I think when you're not in a position to be able to dedicate the time because working with a financial planner does require some time commitment on your end. And so if you have absolutely no spare time, it's not, it's not a good time to talk to somebody. You have to be able to carve out some at have conversations. And then, you know, if you're hyper, you know, doing a good job doing it yourself, I don't think, you know, I don't think this applies Speaker 2 00:28:33 In your, that is one of the toughest questions I get is when it, when somebody comes by that has, uh, done a good job, they've done a good job of saving. They've created a good amount of, of, you know, flexibility for themselves. And that is at that point. Do you want somebody to kind of take a deep dive on things, look at more ways to optimize it from there? Or are you satisfied with, Hey, I, you know, maybe I've saved up three, four or $5 million. Um, and, um, you know, still 10 to 15 years away from retiring, do I, you know, do I want to go optimal or is good enough, good enough. Or, you know, what types of things should I be thinking about? And that's probably one of the tougher areas to say, yeah, I think I probably could help you. We can probably optimize some things, but also is it worth the time and do you have the time? Yeah. Or maybe you are completely Speaker 1 00:29:27 Optimized already, but you don't know for sure. I like, um, I think the, my favorite example of someone that does not need to work with a fund is like good investor, Jim, Jim Dali. Um, he was on the podcast, uh, several episodes back, but, um, we were kind of talking about something similar, but he is a very much lean do it yourself or, and talks about personal finance all day long every day. And like has his written financial plan and has worked with financial planners on like transactional, uh, kind of one-time engagements and it's verified kind of his approach has worked. That's a good example. He has talked to them and worked with them on occasional or one-time plans or whatever, and has gotten that verification. But he is a very unique in that he's doing, there's a lot of people, um, that are doing great. Uh, I would say there's, it's rare to see some knocking it out of the park that well. All right, Jeff. Well, good talk. And, uh, as always, I'm going to go and take some cough drops or something, or hacking up along as always enjoy chatting with Speaker 3 00:30:31 You, always a joy, always a joy Speaker 0 00:30:33 As always. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you found this valuable, please give us a review on iTunes and share with a friend. Also check out our [email protected] for all sorts of additional content. See you next time. Finance for physicians is not an investment tax legal or financial advisor. All content included in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial tax or legal advice. Material presented. It is believed to be from reliable sources and no representations are made by finance for physicians as to another parties, informational accuracy or completeness, all information or ideas provided should be discussed in detail with an advisor accountant or legal counsel prior to the implementation. 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