Speaker 1 00:00:08 What's up everyone. Welcome to the finance for physicians podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Rin. Join me as we dig into what it looks like for physicians to begin using their finances as a tool to live better lives. You can learn more about our
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Speaker 1 00:00:26 Hey everyone, hope you're having a great day today. We're gonna be talking about whether or not to take another job and navigating that decision. There's a lot to it. And I think it's, it's easy to get the, uh, priorities outta order there. So we're gonna be talking about things to think about, you know, good way to navigate the decision and, uh, hopefully give you some, uh, some nuggets to think about as these sorts of things come up in your life. Okay. So I'm sure most of you have gotten, uh, another job offer or had multiple jobs to choose from. Um, maybe you're, uh, further along in your career and you've gotten a ton of different job offers. Maybe you've had a lot of different jobs, uh, maybe you're early on and you're in your first job. And, you know, so that's the only thing you really know if you're in training, uh, that's a little, it's kind of a, not as much of a, a traditional job search route.
Speaker 1 00:01:30 So I know that has its own kind of challenges, but we're gonna talk more about like that in practice type position. And, and there's a lot of, 'em, there's a lot of opportunities out there. Uh, there's a lot of people, there's a lot of there's recruiters that might seek you out. There's a lot of, you know, money to be made. There's a lot of temptations, uh, and there's gonna come a point where you're gonna have a really, really good offer from another position. Um, and it's gonna be a tough decision. So, uh, if you haven't had that already, you know, we will talk through some of the things to think about. Hopefully these are things that, uh, will be of value to you. I think there's a lot, like I said, there's a lot to consider there. So I think the temptations that, that come, and this is, this is the case in a lot of decisions like this.
Speaker 1 00:02:21 Uh, it seems like a big temptation is to start with the money. Uh, and that's why you see a lot of job opportunities lead with the money, or at least mention it fairly quickly. So it's like looking for, you know, physician specialty, blah, blah, blah, um, starting at 300,000 or whatever with good benefits and most job job listings focus on the financial aspect. And I think that's because most people, uh, look there first. So I that's a temptation is to start with the money and just look at purely the compensation and, and sometimes even in there. So first thing I would encourage you to do is try not to get into that trap where you're just looking at compensation. Um, I'm not trying to say compensation is not important at all. I'm just trying to say that. I don't think it's the number one thing to look at.
Speaker 1 00:03:29 I think there's some other, even more important stuff to think about, uh, before you dig into compensation, it's not all about making more money. Oftentimes the jobs that pay the most are in, in the worst places to live, like sometimes that's a reason they're offering more money, is to try to get someone to come to their less desirable area of the country. And so that has its own cost. So, you know, big takeaway there, first of all, is, uh, you know, avoid that temptation to look and focus in on the money as the first driver. So I think better things to, uh, look at when you're starting to think about jobs. I think first thing that comes to mind would be your values. So this is, this is, you know, common in when I'm gonna tell you about all sorts of decisions. I think values should be the driver.
Speaker 1 00:04:26 This is especially big decisions. So it's especially important to look at that. So what I mean by value. So let's say family is important and, uh, good school systems having a job that you enjoy working with people you enjoy, uh, having work life balance. I don't know. Those are just throwing out some examples of values. I think that's far more important to kind of consult those values and goals that you have really, even before you get too far down the road, uh, with the, with, uh, considering a job. Part of the reason I, I decided to cover this topic. Um, my buddy, um, I run with a couple day, uh, one day a week in the morning, he was actually just sharing with me recently that he had a, uh, another job offer and it was in a, uh, a different area of the country.
Speaker 1 00:05:21 And, um, so he was kind of giving me the low down on it. And so one of the first things he shared was that it was actually double his current pay and he makes a good, he makes already a really good living. Um, so this, this new job was gonna be double the pay. And so, you know, just with that information, it's like, wow, that sounds pretty appealing. But when we got to talk and that was actually before he even shared, I think that was before he even shared that it was in a different area of the country. But, uh, when we kind of got to talking or continued, as we continued to talk about it, I started to realize, you know, he had shared, he had done some, um, you know, thinking on it and as he thought about it, he, he started to realize, he's like, man, I have a really good community here that I've established and my kids are, are in good schools and they have good people around them.
Speaker 1 00:06:15 And we're, we're actually the happiest we've ever been, you know, as a family. And, you know, we got a lot of good things going. We have plenty of income, you know, the job that we have now is, you know, sufficient, we're earning adequate income, um, already. And so, you know, he was just kind of throwing out all these things that reinforced how good his setup was today. And so basically it was very clear that he is in good, a align alignment with like his values. Um, you know, nobody's perfectly in alignment. Like there's always things we can work on, but like he's got a, he's got a pretty good setup. Uh, and so, and as he's telling me this, he's kind of, you know, realizing that, uh, from a value standpoint, it doesn't make a ton of sense to even consider this job. You know, it's gonna pay double the income, but like you can't put a price on following your values.
Speaker 1 00:07:16 That's, that's the type of thing that's, uh, you know, you can't really put a price on, so values are extremely important. Um, and you know, whether it be like proximity to the family, certain area of the country, like flexibility in the area you live, like a lot of people love California. It's a really high cost of living area. I mean, in general, there's, there's some areas that are lower and higher, but like, for example, like San Francisco's really high cost of living, but it is a very, it's a sweet place. I mean, you got like the mountains right there and the ocean, and it's got all kinds of things to do, and maybe your family lives there. I mean, that's a pretty compelling reason and financially it's way more expensive and maybe the positions don't even pay as much there. So I would encourage to kind of focus in on those values first, because otherwise you're never gonna wanna live in, you know, that desirable location.
Speaker 1 00:08:12 You're, you know, you're gonna kind of end up with that highest paying job that oftentimes is not a good fit with all those values. So values, I think, should be the number one. Um, I would also look at the people that you would be working with. So let's say values are, you know, good, good alignment. Like, it looks like a good position. Like, um, seems like it'd be a good fit with where you want to go in life. As you look at the, uh, position, I would look at the, you know, the coworkers around and kind of like look at their lives, not just like the surface, but more like, I don't know, this is hard. There's no like one method on how to do this, but like just being around people and getting a feel for, like, for me, family's important. So I would wanna know about the people I was gonna potentially work with and their families.
Speaker 1 00:09:06 And I would want to feel good about like them having a high priority on families and balance and, and that sort of thing. And so, as I interacted with them, to me, that would be a huge thing to look for is like, are these people the type of people that I want to be around or be influenced by because people that you spend time with will influence you, uh, even if you, you know, whether you know it or not, or whether you, you know, no matter what you do, you're gonna have influences around you. So I think it's important. Plus the desirability to work with people. That's a huge thing. You're gonna spend a ton of time with those people. So if you, you can, you can do that before you take the job. You can do your work homework and focus in on the other people that are gonna be in the circles that you're gonna work with and look at how they're doing in relation to what you look for in life.
Speaker 1 00:10:02 Um, and if I think that's a huge thing that can either pull you towards a job or push you away. I remember a, a buddy of ours was, uh, my wife and I, a couple we were friends with was moving away to, um, a different city and he was interviewing for several jobs. Um, and then the, the one position he was looking at, he was telling me like all the, it was a private practice. Um, and he was saying like, all the partners have been are in like their third and fourth marriages, not to say that's like, makes them a bad person, but like, there's something going on there if like multiple the, and the partners are kind of like the drivers of the practice. Like they drive the culture and everything. So if all of 'em kind of have had trouble staying in marriages, um, something's going on, if that's, if it's that consistent.
Speaker 1 00:10:53 Um, and maybe it's that they have a hardcore, like work a ton culture, and it's hard for them to balance everything else, but like he ended up not taking that job. And one of the primary reasons he didn't was because of that. And actually that job was, you know, promising a lot more money. So, um, you know, good for him for, you know, sticking to that, even though the money was there, but, you know, that's, that's a real concrete example. I think of that, you know, the people, it's, that's a huge deal to, to kind of understand and look at that because, you know, that's, that's, that's really, these organizations are the people, you know, and then, you know, after we look at the values and the people and the organization and the job, I think that's when you get into maybe more of the position and the money and the financial aspects and, and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 00:11:46 So as you get into the money stuff and, uh, the position, I guess the position is important. I mean, you just y'all priority, know this, that you, you wanna make sure it's a job you're gonna enjoy doing. So, um, you know, understanding what that's gonna look like that I think most of y'all realize as far as the financial parts. I think what I would encourage is looking more at like the hours, or I guess thinking of it from a standpoint of dollars per hour, instead of just total salary, because it's easy to be comparing, you know, three different jobs and just say, okay, a, B and C like job a pays 200 job B pays two 50, job C pays 300 job C is better from a pay standpoint, but what if job C has like way more hours, you know, like the culture or the, you know, standard is that you're expected to work, you know, a lot more hours.
Speaker 1 00:12:42 And maybe if you look at it in a dollar per hour standpoint, it's actually the lower paying of all three. Uh, so I think it's important to look at it from the standpoint of dollars per hour. Um, also you want to know those hours too, because you, you know, maybe that's a problem, a separate problem is that if there's this expectation, you're gonna kind of really crush it on hours. Like that's gonna potentially cause problems outside of work. Um, so when you're looking at the finances, I would look at, I would encourage you to look at, um, more from the standpoint of dollars per hour. And of course, you know, you wanna look at all the benefits and, and that sort of thing, that those get a little difficult to compare, uh, apples to apples. Cause everybody's, all of them are different, but you, you can look for some, the big, the important benefits are like retirement plan.
Speaker 1 00:13:35 Uh, health insurance is more like important to understand like how much of it they cover the company does versus how much you're gonna pay and long term disabilities, a, an important benefit. Those are probably the three biggest like health insurance, understanding health insurance, understanding retirement plan, uh, what they provide and understanding long-term disability insurance, I think are, if you're gonna understand benefits ahead of time, before you even take a job, those would be the three I'd ask about, uh, because, so for instance, uh, you know, university of Kentucky's right down the road for me, uh, they're, you know, putting 10% in your retirement plan and providing some, you know, really good health insurance and they fully cover long-term disability insurance, and it's pretty good coverage. Uh, so that that's a pretty solid like package right there, like that, that kind of adds like indirect compensation, uh, to the equation when you're, when you're comparing jobs, the financial part.
Speaker 1 00:14:34 And you might be thinking like, how do I find that out? Like a lot of times it's just as simple as asking questions, you know, cuz most of the time and, and some of the big, especially the big universities, a lot of them have it online, like university, Kentucky, uh, a lot of these government funded universities, they have all their benefits online to where you can just look it all up and check it out. The other big thing when we're getting into the financial aspect is understanding if the company, the employer is PSL F qualified, uh, that's huge. Um, and not just, maybe not even J maybe not taking their word for it, even like getting ideally they are a 5 0 1 C three. Um, and ideally you can confirm that the entity that will pay you is 5 0 1 C three. So it doesn't have to be a 5 0 1 C three to qualify for PSL.
Speaker 1 00:15:29 If there are some non-profits and other companies that do still qualify, uh, it's just much harder to qualify or not harder. It's just not as concrete, whether you qualify or not. If you're a 5 0 1 C three, you certain for certain qualify, also looking at like full time, like we've had. So before I go into that, like with the PSL qualification, we've worked with people, uh, where the company they're interviewing with says that they are PSL qualified and it turns out they weren't. And then we've also had people that the person they were interviewing says they were not PSL qualified and it turned out they were. So I would double check that kind of thing. Ideally, you can verify the company because it's all about who you're technically employed by. Who's gonna be paying you and, uh, whether what they', uh, status is. So ideally it's a 5 0 1 C three.
Speaker 1 00:16:28 And if you can verify that ahead of time, that's huge. And so on that similar front, like the PSL F thing, understanding like how they're gonna potentially provide, you know, some of these companies provide stipends for student loans. So you want to understand how their potential benefits will interact with your so, especially like, so the VA for instance, that's a big employer and the VA has a big, huge student loan benefit. Like you can get into their Ben, uh, the student loan, uh, I forget what the VA calls it. I think it's ed R P, but the VA has a big student loan program where they'll help you pay off your student. So you wanna understand how that integrates with PSL F for whatever given organization you're talking to. A lot of hospitals offer those sorts of programs. A lot of the smaller hospitals, or I guess non-government hospitals will, you can sometimes negotiate this.
Speaker 1 00:17:30 So ideally they're not paying the student loan company directly, uh, because that often will mess up PSL F so you don't ideally you want them to pay you, uh, that student loan stipend. And then also understanding, especially now with COVID forbearance understanding, uh, if you're required to show proof of payments for student loans or not, that's, I think important, you know, ahead of time to understand, but, so, so those are just kind of some of the, the big financial things, uh, that, that come to mind. Well, one more all throughout, like insurances, like malpractices especially looking at, uh, whether or not the company provides tail coverage. So with malpractice insurance, most of the big hospitals provide really good, uh, malpractice coverage while you're there and working. But if you leave, there's a question as to while some hospitals stop there. So if you were, um, say you saw a patient or did a procedure on somebody while you were working at hospital at the first hospital, and then you left and then like, after you left, the patient comes in files a lawsuit against you.
Speaker 1 00:18:48 So if the hospital provided tail coverage, that means like the malpractice like extends for as long, you know, extends into the future for all the work you did there, even if you've left versus if they don't provide tail coverage. That means if it, the claim is filed after you've left, you're, you're on the hook for it. So like it's not their re it's not their responsibility. So that ends up playing out. Like if you have to cover tail. So what happens when usually people find this out on the back end? So like the job doesn't work out, they have to leave. So they're like, huh, okay. I gotta go. And then it's like, oh, I real, by the way, what do I do about malpractice? And it turns out that, uh, you have to think about this tail coverage thing. So when people realize that the hospital's not covering them for if they leave, or as soon as they leave for anything that happened in the past, most people realize it and they just have to buy tail coverage cuz you know, they don't want to take that risk.
Speaker 1 00:19:51 It's a pretty big risk to dig. And so they buy tail coverage themselves, which is depending on, especially can be super expensive. Um, so it's much better to, uh, kind of root out all these sorts of issues ahead of time, even before you take the job. Uh, because if, especially if you're comparing two jobs, if you're compared two jobs, one offers tail coverage, one doesn't, I'll take the tail coverage, all things being equal all day long, just that's a much better overall, uh, and potentially less costly set up and definitely a big consideration. So the, these are some of the, you know, just things that come to mind, some of the important things, some high level things to think about. As I said at the beginning, I think the most important thing is non-financial. I would encourage you to focus on that, uh, first, but don't overlook the financial part.
Speaker 1 00:20:39 Um, and then on top of all that, I think it's worthwhile for everyone, especially for your first job to hire someone, to review your contracts like a, um, contract consultant or like an attorney, a lot of attorneys that are that focus on employment law or contracts will review your contract and look for, you know, they'll look out for your interests and they'll look for, you know, potential things that you might want to, uh, look at re requesting be changed. Um, so I think it's worthwhile to, uh, potentially hire a contract consultant or an, uh, employment law attorney to help you review your contracts. Uh, we actually had a, uh, contract consultant from contract diagnostics a while back, um, in, in an episode I'll linked to that in the show notes. And we talk a lot more about, you know, that the specific contract crew review process.
Speaker 1 00:21:39 So that's, that's some stuff to think about, uh, as you're potentially considering jobs. Uh, I hope it's all been helpful. I think it's great. It's a great thing to consider other opportunities. You know, it's just like anything it's, it's worthwhile to kind of take, take a minute to think through it and uh, make sure you're considering, you know, all the aspects before you pull the trigger. All right. We'll look forward to talking again next time as always, thank you so much for joining us today. If you found this valuable, please give us a review on iTunes and share with a friend. Also check out our
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