Mo Money, Mo Problems

Speaker 1 00:00:08 What's up, everyone. Welcome to the finance for physicians podcast. I'm your host. Daniel Raimi. Join me as we dig into what it looks like for physicians to begin using their finances as a tool to live better lives. You can learn more about our [email protected] let's. Jump into today's episode. What's up guys. Welcome to the podcast. I got my buddy Jeff with me here today. Again, Jeff say what's up to the crowd. Hey guys, what's up crowd, Jeff and I are going to be talking about a fun topic today. Mo money Mo problems is the title. And I was, as I was thinking about that, I'm thinking, I wonder if everybody gets what that is by the way, the motivation for this was not, I didn't come up with the idea for this. I didn't tell you this, Jeff, but the motivation for this came from Tyler, our good buddy, Tyler, shout out by the way, for that. I appreciate it. But I've made the joke about maybe some of our audience wouldn't know what we were talking about with Mo money Mo problems. Uh, and Tyler was like, well, who are you talking to? Like 15 year olds? And I was thinking about I'm like, is that, when was it? I thought it was further back than that. When was notorious bid a big, big deal? I think it was like, that was the mid nineties maybe or early nineties. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:01:23 You got to pull up Google seeing our doors VIG. So Speaker 1 00:01:27 Hopefully everyone listening knows what a about, you know, knows biggie and recognizes what we're talking about. But, uh, for those that don't, he had a popular song called Mo money Mo problems. And it was, I think back in the early night. Speaker 2 00:01:42 Yeah, he, uh, well he passed away at 97. So it had to been before then that's going back a ways. Speaker 1 00:01:47 Yup. They say he passed away. Just get him. It's Speaker 2 00:01:52 Always a rumor with, uh, Speaker 1 00:01:54 Yeah. The artists. Right. But anyway, so we're going to be talking Mo money Mo problems. Uh, we'll also, we'll cover that in the beginning. We'll we'll talk about cause, cause that's definitely the case. A lot of people would argue that it is the more money you have, the more problems you have. Uh, but on the flip side, you know, a lot of people like to think, or, or in a situation where they'd benefit from having more money, so more money, less problems would be the flip side. So we'll circle back to that side of the coin as well. But I think, I think it'll be a fun topic to cover. There's lots of different, uh, intricacies buried in there. So anyway, we'll start with Mo money Mo problems. So what, well, first of all, before we get into this, I'm curious, Jeff, do you have a S a stance on whether you think it's for most people, money causes more problems or do you think for most people, money causes less problems and you have to answer first before I say my answer. Speaker 2 00:02:53 Oh boy. So for most people does more money cause more problems. Well, I'll give you my well-researched answer of, I think we might even made them touched on this like, Oh man, a while ago now, but about how there is a certain level of kind of income where people gain happiness and then after that, it's kind of diminishing returns. So can I give you a classic answer and say it depends. Depends. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. But I would say in my mind though, I think of the average person would think that more money is going to be less problems. Yeah. It's going to solve things. Speaker 1 00:03:28 Well, I think it depends on how you define, so my answer would be, it depends on how you define problems. So I haven't, it depends, it depends answer as well, but I think it's dependent on what you consider problems. So for example, having like lots of houses and lots of cars and lots of stuff, and lots of temptations, you're kind of giving way in your life to a lot of people would consider that like awesome. But a lot of other people would consider that like problematic. So I think it depends on what you define as like the ideal life. So, but I still, I take the stance. I'm glad we have the same answer. It depends. So that's what makes it, makes it interesting Speaker 2 00:04:09 Minds think alike or at least narcissistic ones do mediocre Speaker 1 00:04:13 Minds think alike. That's Speaker 2 00:04:14 True. The average would also think alike. That would be kind of definition of average, right? Speaker 1 00:04:19 Yeah. Good, good. Wow. All right. Good talk. So, alright. Mo money Mo problems. So what are the big kind of arguments that it would in fact be that more money would cause more problems? Or maybe what are those problems that would associate with having the wood is associated with having more money? I think organization is a big one. The first one that always comes to my mind is like, when you have $1, it's easy to keep up with the $1, when you have a million dollars, it's like, Oh my goodness. And the tax code makes it even more kind of requires complexity. That's what makes taxes fun or, yeah, not fun. It depends on how you define it, but Speaker 2 00:05:00 Yeah, I think maybe kind of, I frame this first, so I kind of go back and look at what was life like before I really started doing any saving or, you know, basically think back to like right out of college or when you were first married. Like, I don't know about you Daniel, but I didn't spend much because I didn't have much. And so a lot of the choices weren't there, so it made things really simple. It wasn't as complicated back then, uh, you know, like, so it adds complexity to your life to have more to deal with. So think about this. Um, like how many times have you had that has a choice of, or a conversation, like where are we going to go out to eat and how many turns does that take? And even just with a real small decision of where are we going to go eat? Yeah. Well, when I didn't have any money, that was a real easy decision because the choice was, well, we can't go out the, so we're going to stay home and eat, look Speaker 1 00:05:58 In the fridge. Yeah. Let's look ramen noodles. It is, Speaker 2 00:06:00 Is it something maybe that's a little bit extreme, but it's just, it kind of frames it in my mind that adding money to life adds more complexity and complexity makes things more difficult, kind of by definition, not necessarily worse, but Speaker 1 00:06:16 Difficult. Yeah. That's a good example. I have, um, a, we, we did read it our kitchen. I'm trying to think how long, maybe five or six years ago. And I was not involved in the decision, making all the stuff you have to pick, and there's a million things you have to pick. Um, but it kind of reminded me of all the decisions. There's a bajillion decisions. Also. It's a lot more stuff that can kind of go wrong. So what I was thinking about is it just recently the microwave blew up the, and it turns out that the things like a $1,900 microwave, it's a con oven slash microwave and, and there's a perfect size that has to fit into it. And it's complicated. It's just like complicated. I'm like, man, there's an argument. Maybe it would be nice to just have a simple, old microwave. Like I had in college that really never broke. But if it did, it was like a $30 microwave. Exactly. But yet I have a complicated microwave. And does that provide more problems or less problems or more happiness or less happiness? I don't know, but that's just kind of a, you know, specific example that comes to mind. It can definitely, you can definitely go down that route of like, I got all these choices now, so depending on how you make those choices. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:07:33 And I don't think anybody would necessarily, well, not maybe anybody, but what they would say, Oh, I wish I just didn't have any choices, but it is still that each one of those choices in each thing you add to your life as another plate that you got to kind of spin and keep going and, and make decisions on later too. Speaker 1 00:07:50 Yeah. People don't say I'd rather have less choices and they also don't say I'd rather have less money because they're kind of interrelated, I guess, more money, more choices organizing though is also, I guess, coming with, going back to the lots of accounts and you know, when you have lots of money, that's, that's always something that comes to mind. I think I was talking to Tyler about this too, is, um, we had talked about unclaimed assets being a thing. I think he, maybe he didn't realize that was the thing. And, or maybe didn't realize how big of a thing it was, but there's tons and tons of money and unclaimed assets and the States hang on to those. Um, and so that's just the classic definition. So what happens is you have an asset that is not claimed for a certain period of time, depending on the state, they claim it back. Cause it's just considered unclaimed assets and you can go on the state's websites and look to see if you have unclaimed assets. But the, each state has lots and lots of money of unclaimed assets. And so when you have like one account, you're not going to have unclaimed assets who have one checking account or something like, I'm sure I didn't like lose money in college like that. But when you have like 75 different accounts and IRAs and 401ks and five 20 nines and 15 checking accounts and 75 credit cards and I mean, that's prone, Speaker 2 00:09:05 Hey, the state can have any of my credit cards. Speaker 1 00:09:07 They want their credit cards are not a big deal, but what about temptation? That's that's another big one. Speaker 2 00:09:12 Yeah. So, so temptation then with more money than, you know, I think this probably goes back to just a classic talk about lifestyle and how, you know, as we see things that we want, we start, you know, we have the ability to get them, uh, we, we add those things to our life and it starts to become something that you're committed to because, you know, I think as you look at life and, and we've probably, you've probably run across research on this too, but the idea of it hurts a lot more. We dislike pain a lot more than we like the same amount of pleasure. And so once we've added something to our life and kind of committed to that, it hurts a lot more to even think about getting rid of it than it would to add it in the first place. So it it's something that we start to be committed to. Speaker 2 00:09:59 And the temptation to add is something that it's really easy to add, really hard to take away. And so it starts to add these things we're committed to and, and everything we're committed to takes time. I think, I guess a lot of times we talk about maybe debt as being something that robs from the future. Like we, that takes our time and takes our time to pay it off. But even just owning things, like if you went to my basement and saw all the free stuff that I got from my dad, like he had all kinds of tools, this stuff cost me nothing. He passed away and anything I wanted was there, right. Tables, saws, or this, that, whatever. But now it's stuff that I, by the way, I'm not that handy. So yeah. I'm like, do you use, if you Daniel's got a very perplexed look, I didn't expect this from you, Jeff, but so anyway, but it's taking its own cost just being there because now that's something I have to keep up. Even though I pay nothing on it, I have to keep it up or it gets in my way. And it's a commitment to stuff anyway. Speaker 1 00:11:09 Right. Or if it breaks, you gotta fix it or give it away or they don't know how to fix it. So yeah. I told, I told my, uh, wife the other day, she, she was, we have a bed old bed, uh, I don't even headboard. That's what they call them. It's been in our basement forever and she's like, we'd be going back and forth. We got to get rid of it. It's in the get rid of pile for years. And then finally she sold it on Facebook or something like that. She was going to sell it. And so it took her like three months to sell it. And there was so much back and forth. It was a pain and it's been a lots of time and efforts. And after seeing that, I told her, I was like, from on, I think what we should do is anything under, like, I don't know, $200, let's just give it away. Like it's not worth trouble to deal with that. Let's just give it to whoever we decide to or whatever we decide to give it to, uh, because I saw this like baggage coming with this. So that kind of goes with the whole, you have more money, you buy more stuff, you have more baggage of stuff to deal with and you have to ultimately decide what happens to the stuff and where it goes and when you're, you know, not needing it anymore, Speaker 2 00:12:23 It sure does. Yeah. We have that same type of conversation. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:12:27 They also say, you know, I guess you could argue there's a lot more responsibility, um, with more money, uh, responsible, uh, I guess at minimum, you're responsible for what happens to the money and that gets into a lot of personal values and how you define being responsible or not being responsible, but there's definitely a different level of responsibility that comes with a higher level of money or income or assets or whatever. Speaker 2 00:13:00 Yeah. That's a, that is absolutely the case. Right. Uh, kind of going back to that, you know, in college, all I cared about was did my bank account have enough money to buy my books and pizza. Um, and then, you know, as you start to think about the future, you start adding these accounts and, and you're right. The organization just, it gets out of not out of hand, but it, it, it can be helpful to be organized. Right? Speaker 1 00:13:24 Yeah. And then there's target, you get targeted. So who's going to target somebody with money. I mean, like you got your friends might, I mean, not like maybe they're not like stealing money, you might be thinking of people stealing your money. And that's definitely possible the more money you have, you probably more of a target for like theft or, you know, Ponzi scheme people coming after you or, um, that kind of thing. But even more common is like your buddy, it's kind of an acquaintance asks you to invest in is crap, you know, mediocre business deal. That's probably going to go South or even more so is like, um, in hard times I need, you know, money or maybe they just straight up kind of Kanye or whatever, but that, that kind of stuff is much more common. Right. I mean, Speaker 2 00:14:12 Absolutely. And I, I think that comes with having the more money, but even the perception of having more money too, because, uh, you know, physicians are a big target physicians just by nature of your profession, you know, are, are going to be a target, just a feeling, a general idea that you've got an income that, that you can help me out. Right. All doctors are rich, all of them. Right. Even residents with a $400,000 in student loans. Right. But yeah. And so, yeah, I guess you're exactly right there that you can be a target, um, just from normal relationships that, that kind of view things a little and that can, that can be a, definitely a complication more problems. Speaker 1 00:14:56 Yeah. It's also, so it's also more complicated. We kind of hit on that with a little bit of a ways, but, but also with taxes and just, I know you have, you're gonna have lots of accounts when you have more money, but you're also gonna have, you're gonna pay a lot more taxes and you're going to have to pay potentially pay people to help you minimize taxation. That's kind of what we do in our profession, our day job, we're financial planners. So we help in some capacity help people minimize taxation. But, um, that's just kind of a nature of how our, um, systems are set up. But people that have extremely large net worth and high, high income, their taxes are insanely complicated. And in order for them to properly navigate it, they're going to have to pay people to help them do it. You know? Speaker 1 00:15:45 So there's just all this stuff that comes with having that as, and then you get people involved too, when you have more money, right? So the average person would considerable money. You know, even people with a pretty good income, more likely to hire housekeeper housecleaning, mow the grass, maybe a nanny, you know, you outsource stuff more often, you hire financial planners. I mean, you hire accountants, you hire people and pay people for services, more likely more often than lower income. That can be good, but it also is just something else you have to deal with because you have to deal with people and making sure they're doing their job. And if they're not doing their job, you gotta deal with it. Like nobody else is going to deal with it, except the person paying them. So you've got to fire him and, or have the conversation and find another person that sort of thing. Speaker 1 00:16:37 So not everyone in that situation deals with that, but most people on average, the more where you have that, and that can get to be a big, big deal in itself. Think of like the, uh, you know, the Royal families in there. I think that's such a good example of like what the extreme wealth and I mean, they have like body guards and stuff and, and, uh, escorts and full staff and that kind of thing. And, but they need, they would, um, argue. And maybe in, I think this is legitimate is they need like a bodyguard because they're so targeted and that in order to protect, protect them, and there's crazy people, and they're going to go after him. Speaker 2 00:17:16 If you thought whole life insurance was bad. Try hiring a bodyguard. Yeah. A whole nother level of protection. Huh? Yeah. I mean, that's, Speaker 1 00:17:25 That's a different level. What other things can you think of any other arguments for more money, more problem. Speaker 2 00:17:31 So just more money, more problems, no money. Mo problems Mo Mo money, more Speaker 1 00:17:35 Pop. You gotta say it like B. It is Speaker 2 00:17:37 True. Hey, listen, I was, I was 13 when, when he passed away. So Speaker 1 00:17:42 Yeah, you're not you weren't in the prime. Speaker 2 00:17:44 I was not in the prime, but yeah, it's hard for me to think of any, well, it just keep it, you could make up a whole lot of other things that make things more complicated, uh, with more money. But I think we kind of hit a lot of, you know, good concepts here on just, how does it make it tougher? What more, what problems come along with it? And I guess maybe one thing that we kind of hit on was about how this starts to be something that is like, it controls you is when your money becomes a problem to you. And, you know, I think, uh, you know, Daniel, you and I are both pretty active in our, in our faith communities here in our local areas. But you know, I, I go back to this verse in Matthew that talks about how you, you can't serve two masters and Matthew six 24 talks about you can't serve two masters for either you'll hate one and love the other, or I'll hold to the one and despise the other. Speaker 2 00:18:34 You can't serve God and mammon or another way of kind of phrasing as you can't serve God and money. And, you know, kind of when you're talking about how, when these problems from money can start to take control, it's a bad thing, right? When you are trying to catch up and, and play by the cast, play, play the servant to your money, like trying to make sure that it all happens rather than being in control of it and starting to use it as a tool for whatever your purpose is. So, you know, I kind of, I defer to, to God is my higher, my, the purpose in life for me, you know, and that may not be something everyone agrees with, but you probably have a purpose higher than just your bank account. You know, no matter who you are, to be honest, you know, it's so good to be in control. Speaker 1 00:19:18 I think that nails, it like money as an idol, uh, that that's a problem. And I, I mean, I think most even non-Christians would, would agree that that's, that's not a good, good place to be. It's a little bit of a slippery slope. Like you, a lot of people kind of probably have a little bit of that happening, and everybody's kind of susceptible to that a little bit of that creeping in, but having the awareness of that is, is the key. And ideally like you're saying, you're not, but it is hard. And I think, uh, I like the Bible verse or, you know, Jesus said about the camera we were talking about before the, the, uh, uh, we started about the, the camel verse. So it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. That's what Jesus said. And Jeff was giving me some, some knowledge on that. Cause I'm like, man, that'd be impossible, a camel to go through the eye of a needle. So it must be really hard for ultra rich to go through or to end up in heaven. But Jeff, what were you saying? Speaker 2 00:20:18 That would be like the ultimate example of more money and probably the biggest problem if you know that right. If your understanding of having is correct, then that's you want to be there. So that's no good. Speaker 1 00:20:30 That's no good. And that's what Jesus said, but it wasn't quite as extreme as I was interpreting it. Speaker 2 00:20:34 Yeah. And I think there's a, so a number of Bible scholars, talk about that and look at saying how that's phrased is possibly more likely that a camel's hair going through the eye of the needle is tough because a camel's hair is more coarse than like a normal thread. So it'd be difficult to thread that needle. Um, and you might be kind of bashing your head against the wall, trying to do it. You get pretty angry trying to do that, but yeah, but not necessarily quite as impossible as the whole camel. Speaker 1 00:21:03 Right? Yeah. That makes more sense than I think that that's much more hopeful for someone that is rich in air quotes, but there is hope there is hope. So let's flip to the other side. So I guess moral of the story is more money is always more problems. Just kidding. No, that, I mean, hopefully you can utilize money to, to improve, uh, and have less problems and happier life and, and that sort of thing. And I think that's Jeff, you hit on the research a little bit. That's what the research says is that there's a pretty solid return on happiness, especially for like the early kind of phases of building wealth or having income. It's kind of flattened out in the more you make. But, um, on the other side of the coin, if we were to argue like what, what are the reasons why more money can result in less problems? It's kind of the reverse of what we just talked about. Speaker 2 00:21:55 Oh yeah. Well I guess, yeah, it is really the flip side of it because the more money you have, the more choices you legitimately do have, and so you can make the choice of, you know, do I, is it, is it best for me to be mowing my own lawn or outsourcing that, or, you know, I get the choice if I'm in control of my finances to be building towards priorities that are important to me, such as, you know, giving or, you know, retirement or, or, or whatever your, you might be prioritizing. Speaker 1 00:22:31 Yeah. And I don't remember if I told you this, uh, about, uh, someone that used to work for me a long time ago in text me yesterday or the day before, and was like, I just wanted to thank you again for letting me go when you did. Did I tell you that happened, Jeff? Yeah, so that, that to me is just made me feel good about that, but I could totally see it going the other direction. So, um, I, he, he was working in my business and worked for me for a while really good guy, but it was pretty obvious that he was not in the right. He wasn't on the right seat in the, basically not a good fit for the position. And so, um, I kinda saw that and the easy route would have been to let it play out and I could totally see him stay in forever. Cause he's just a good guy and, you know, but it just wasn't a good position for him. And so I decided to tell him that, and ultimately he left and we parted ways, but that's what I think of is like a decision point that only happened because my business had done well and I had the choice, but it could easily, you know, go two different directions. And I feel that that was, that helped, you know, put me in a better position, but I can totally see that, that other side of the coin, Speaker 2 00:23:48 I could see that from an employer standpoint, that'd be tough to make that call I think. And definitely, Speaker 1 00:23:54 You know, it happens with how, you know, uh, personal, it happens with the household employees too. Like you have someone, you know, especially like if they're taking care of your children or something, like say it's an Annie and you, um, that's a nice choice to have you, if you have the resources to be able to do that, but say that they're, you know, not doing things right, or they're not, uh, they're just not as involved. And you feel like it's just a bad fit. I mean, that's not, you could get in the exact same situation and essentially be having to fire a nanny if it's not a good fit. And Speaker 2 00:24:30 I think from the nanny's perspective too, or the not maybe your name, I don't know if you have any, any Daniel, no, but even from the employee perspective, having Mo more money, see, now you got me saying it was hard for you to get me to say that, to begin with, but, uh, you know, on the employee side of, of accumulating and having more money on the sidelines or in investments, or, you know, that can actually give them the freedom to recognize they're in the wrong seat, they're in the wrong position and feel confident to move on to what is a better position or a better fit for. So, and that's probably better for everybody when everybody has that level of confidence in the fire community. I think they call that F you money, which I won't spell that out. Yeah. Probably Speaker 1 00:25:18 Bleep that out. Kidding. Yeah. I mean that, that's a, um, one of the things that comes with it, I also think of like cool stuff. I mean, you can, some of the cool stuff also becomes like uncle stuff and you have to deal with it, but there's all kinds of nice things that you can have a choice as to whether or not you buy them. And, you know, a lot of times, I mean, nicer cars and nicer houses are nice. I mean, they're just enjoyable, but it's not, there's a slippery slope there. I think what I would, that's more of a slippery slope than like experiences. So experiences, I think is another blessing of having wealth and money is you can utilize that those resources to put yourself and your family or whoever in like just this experience that's really impactful and that's priceless. I don't think, I don't think you can put a, I mean, you can put a dollar amount on it, but it's, it's very impactful and you would not have that choice. I didn't have that choice growing up. Like I didn't have, like, we didn't travel any, there was no, there was very, we still had experiences, but it was in the house. But when you can go to places or meet people, and I think that's something that can happen with added wealth, but it also can be a slippery slope as well. I mean, all of these are slippery slopes. Well, how about one that Speaker 2 00:26:44 Maybe isn't hopefully not quite as slippery is that you can be a more generous person when you've married finance as well. And I think there is a lot of talk about how being generous and it makes you a happier person. Hopefully it makes the people around you happier. Speaker 1 00:27:01 Yeah. Yeah. That's such a good point. It's almost, it's interesting. Like the less of a slippery slope, it is, the more it tends to translate to happiness, you know, based on the research go figure, but it's also the hardest to do too, which is counterintuitive a little bit. So it's like, okay, if we break it down between cool stuff, experiences and giving the researchers, researchers would say, what giving is the best return on your happiness? Speaker 2 00:27:29 I think it's pretty solidly there. And Speaker 1 00:27:31 Then experiences would be number two. They would say a home run would be giving in things you can experience. That's like a home run is when you can experience and give, but experiences would be seven second and then material would be third. But like in reality in life, a lot of times the cool stuff is the number one and, you know, experiences number two and then giving is far down the line. Speaker 2 00:27:53 Yeah. And that is exactly right. So, you know, we can create less problems by being intentional about this and kind of examining, examining your priorities and what you want to be achieving. You know, what's going to make you really content really happy. Speaker 1 00:28:08 Yeah. Something lately I have tried to be better about. And I feel like has a good return on, on happiness is not just giving, but being more generous in my working with other people in a financial, in a financial capacity, what I mean is like a waitress or waiter or something like that. So like tipping a lot more or people that help help around the house or whatever people that we hire. Like I've always historically been like super cheap. So I'm the type that's like gonna be skimpy on the tip unfortunately or fortunate. I don't know, but I've tried to be better at increasing that. And because that to me is a good way to be more charitable. And then there's also a return on incentive too. So I've noticed go figure. We're saying a lot of wise stuff here, people that you pay more tend to work harder. Speaker 1 00:29:06 I had a, we had a fence put in when we, when we built, when we bought our house and the, we typically get like three quotes on stuff like that. And back then my philosophy was like, get the we're going with the lowest, one of the three. And I remember my father-in-law, he's like a wise kind of very fiscally responsible guy. He's like, well, you need to go with the middle one because you're going to get good enough service, but it's not going to be like overpriced. And I'm like, nah, let's go with the cheap one, went with the cheap one. Sure enough, fast forward to today, the two posts, the main gate, like the big old post have both rotted out. I don't know if it's to that, but definitely falling apart. And it's only five years old, sometimes paying market rates or even above market rates to me is like a way to, has a better return on your dollar and you can have a positive impact, but what's it come down to? I mean, I think it's about, uh, going back to what I said at the beginning of, for me, I feel like it's about, um, how you define happiness because that's a problem, you know, problem is unhappy. So to me, it's about how you define happiness and whether or not it's moving you forward towards that or away from it. Speaker 2 00:30:16 Yeah. And, uh, so I guess, you know, you mentioned that in our day jobs here we are financial planners and kind of what we, what we just explore. There are these ideas of goals that we're moving towards. And not that those don't change because it seems like they inevitably do, as you get closer to them, your ideas of what, or maybe not your ideas, but just your understanding of what is really making you tick changes. But having that, those goals in place, whatever they are that you're working towards can help you to prioritize, you know, how you're organizing the rest of this so that it's not in control of you, Speaker 1 00:30:53 But you're making progress. Yeah. Yeah. What about time Mo money Mo problems, I guess, or more money, less problems time can, you can buy time with more money? Speaker 2 00:31:04 Yeah, I think so. That's where, you know, the, the idea that you had here about it takes more relationships to outsource some things, but you can, you know, by some of those times some of these, these items that would, you'd normally look at, um, you mentioned mowing the grass, you know, doing a remodel, uh, the, you know, help with, with the kids, whatever it is that, you know, it gets you more time to do the things that you, you prioritize or need to do. And, um, Speaker 1 00:31:32 Yeah. Any other examples you can think of arguments for, we're not doing as good on them, less problems side. I don't think, yeah. Speaker 2 00:31:40 It must be true. More money, more problems. Speaker 1 00:31:43 I mean, he was onto something. I mean, it it's definitely, um, it's not as easy as it seems. I think I would be curious what ultra wealthy I've definitely heard ultra wealthy people say that like the equivalent to what we're talking about, that it is more problems than they really thought it was going to be. But, um, have you ever talked to people about that? Jeff? Not that I can recall. I've talked to, had heard several people say that, that, but I'm sure that you get both sides of the coin, but maybe a couple of examples we'll throw out and call it a day. Um, I think so if you're in, in, um, in training still, I think one of the classic examples that, uh, I see coming into play in regards to this is your decision to on a job, which job do you choose? Speaker 1 00:32:36 Because a lot of times you have your choice. And so sometimes the, or the temptation would be to go with the highest offer that you can get. But the problem with that, I mean, and this goes back to what is your idol like money is your, is your money, your idol. So if money's driving the ship, you're going to choose the highest offer possible. But the problem with that is, is that whole priorities thing in the first, you know, your priorities might be a little bit out of order, uh, or your money might be at the top of the priority list, which is, is gonna translate to probably more problems because if your odds are the job that the highest pain is may not be as desirable a location, uh, it may be like way further away from your family. It might not fit some of the other areas that you value. Speaker 1 00:33:30 You might be moving away from your friends. Um, so on the other hand, the lowest paying job could very well line up perfectly with all your ideal kind of like your ideal life. So I would always lean towards the lower paying job in that kind of extreme scenario, because you can't put a price on having, you know, your friends and your family and in being in a good location and, and that sort of thing. There's a reason why people, why cost of living is higher in certain areas. Now sometimes that's over the top, but can you think of any other examples that come to mind, Jeff, that are just big decisions Speaker 2 00:34:06 Points, it sounds like you learned from your, uh, quote, uh, example getting quotes on, on, on help, uh, for your, your fencing. Yeah. Fail forward. You know, even the, the idea that job offer kind of is the opposite of that, right? If we assume that money is the equivalent thing between all those jobs, and that's the only thing we look at, but when we look at the experience that goes along with it, it makes a big difference. Speaker 1 00:34:33 Yep. And so what I was doing by taking the lowest bid is I was kind of like letting money drive the ship and not really, I was, you know, didn't have any experience doing those kinds of things. So, but some of us hardheaded folk like myself have a lot of how we learn is through, Speaker 2 00:34:50 I think. Uh, okay. So you asked for an example, I got, I got an example of something we can do here. And I think one thing is to not unnecessarily complicate your finances as you build wealth, that's an excellent one. Feel free to, you know, take it slow on adding new things that you need to dive into from an investment standpoint, um, prioritize the easy stuff first and know what you want to get into. So just keep it simple as long as you can. And then if you really have to make it more complicated, dive into that. Speaker 1 00:35:21 Yeah. That's such a good point. I think a lot of people have too many checking accounts, too many credit cards, too many IRAs, even too many old 401ks. And they could just have one of these. Speaker 2 00:35:34 Have you been looking at my accounts? Yeah, no. I mean Speaker 1 00:35:38 Too many IRAs. Speaker 2 00:35:39 See that that's kind of the thing is you go through life, but ah, we're getting off track or we'll move backwards here, but yeah, you go through life and you started an IRA at betterment and then you did one at Vanguard and then you got at your new job and at residency, and then you hop into a new hospital and I got 16 different. Speaker 1 00:35:52 Yeah. Yeah. And then you're almost like as complex. I mean, that's just too complicated, just too much to deal with. It's another example I would throw out there is just like just material things. We have so much stuff nowadays. I think having a, I'm not going to say like minimalist, but like lean towards just trying to keep stuff to a minimum. And then as you purchase things, think about it from that standpoint too. I I've kinda gotten to where I'm like one in one out it's like no more added stuff unless we're giving away stuff. Yeah. We should probably be one in two, out around one and two out. That's probably too much stuff. Yup. Yup. Awesome. Well, I think that's a good kind of covers most of the points, the biggies that, that come up in that regard, Jeff enjoy chatting muddy is always, yeah. Always Speaker 2 00:36:41 A pleasure and love these conversations. Speaker 1 00:36:44 Yeah, man, we can go, we can spin off into lots of different tangents. Um, I'm impressed with us staying on agenda pretty well here. Very tangent prone conversations. Speaker 2 00:36:57 Congratulations Daniel. Speaker 1 00:36:59 Congratulations, Jeff. Good talking with you as always. All right. Have a great day as always. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you found this valuable, please give us a review on iTunes and share with a friend. Also check out our [email protected] for all sorts of additional content. See you next time. Finance for physicians is not an investment tax legal or financial advisor. 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