Speaker 0 00:00:08 What's up.
Speaker 1 00:00:09 Welcome to the finance for physicians podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Raimi. Join me as we dig into what it looks like for physicians to begin using their finances as a tool to live better lives. You can learn more about our
[email protected] let's. Jump into today's episode. I'm so happy to be here with you today and to share today's episode. One of my goals and creating the fundings for physicians podcast was to help more of you begin using money to live better lives. There's a ton of different ways to do this. However, I would argue that the financial planning process is by far the best and most foundational method I know of to help you begin moving the needle on this. Most people I interact with tend to agree with this idea, but I think the challenge comes when you start looking at how you go about doing this.
Speaker 1 00:00:53 So today we're going to be talking more about the how of financial planning. And I brought in two heavyweights in the personal finance space to help us cover all the bases. Both are doing big things in the world of personal finance, both have dedicated a large part of their careers and time to helping more people be smarter with their money. They tend to agree on a lot of things, but one area they bury on is the how of financial planning. So you'll get to hear several varying perspectives on this, and I'm excited to have you join us for the good conversation. But before we jump in, I wanted to say a couple of things. First of all, thank you for those of you who have provided reviews. That's a huge help to get the word out about our podcast and help us grow and have a bigger impact.
Speaker 1 00:01:33 Second, if you have a financial question or an idea of a guest tap on, or maybe even just some feedback, we would love to hear it, you'll see a form in the show notes that you can click into and share this info. And we would really appreciate it. Okay, so let's get into today's episode. My first guest is a practicing emergency room physician. He's also a financial blogger on the side. You probably know him as the white coat investor. For those that aren't familiar with this, they produce blogs, books, podcasts courses, speaking, engagements, conferences, you name it. They have it all focused around helping physicians get a fair shake on wall street. Welcome Dr. Jim Dolly. Thank you. It's good to be here. My second guest is the founder of one of the first fee only subscription-based financial planning firms that I know of, and he did it all in his twenties.
Speaker 1 00:02:21 He's also the co-founder and CEO of the X Y planning network. They are a fee only subscription-based next gen focused network of financial planners, all focused on doing the right thing for clients. This organization has seen massive growth. For example, when I joined in 2014, they were around 30 or 40 members, and today they're up to 1,350 members. He's definitely moving the needle on helping change financial planning into a true profession. Alan Moore. Welcome. Thank you. Excited to be here. Yeah, man. So both of you guys I'd say, have been very successful, definitely from my and working
Speaker 2 00:03:00 In that personal finance space. So I'm just curious to have either one of you guys worked with financial advisors personally, along the way
Speaker 3 00:03:09 You want to take a stab at that first hour.
Speaker 2 00:03:11 Yeah, I um, so I, I have a couple of degrees in financial planning. I'm an undergrad and master's in family, financial planning, uh, married a woman with a degree in financial planning and we have our own financial planner. Uh, and so we can talk more about that decision and how we went through that, that hiring process and such, but, uh, yeah, we, we ended up on the other side of the table, uh, and, and it's been a really powerful, uh, relationship has been really beneficial for us in our marriage, uh, and, and the way we navigate and, and have conversations about money and decisions that we're making. And so, yeah, I have started working with a financial advisor and, uh, I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker 3 00:03:46 My part, it really comes down to how you define financial advisor. I have worked with people who call themselves financial advisor, but I no longer call them financial advisors
Speaker 2 00:03:58 At the time you called them a financial advisor. I
Speaker 3 00:04:00 Sure did. I sure did call them that. And, uh, cause I didn't know any better. Um, but I'm sure we'll get more into that as we go along. I have actually also, uh, sat down with a real financial advisor for a second opinion. Uh, I don't know, it's probably been seven or eight years ago. I wrote a blog post about it and you know, basically the blessed what we were doing and we walked on our way. It regularly don't typically use a financial planner or an investment manager. I tend to do that myself for the most part.
Speaker 2 00:04:28 What was, I'm curious, what prompted you the first time when you work with the financial advisor in air quotes, uh, what, what was the prompting that caused you to start working with them?
Speaker 3 00:04:39 He was referred to me by a residency classmates or residency mate and, uh, subsequently we went and met with them and taught us a few things that we didn't know for sure. But in the end it was more about selling mutual funds to us than it was about really financial planning, mutual funds and insurance products and financial planning and, and, you know, looking back, he didn't do anything illegal. I felt ripped off. I was mad about it, but there was nothing illegal. And if I would have understood how the industry worked, I would have known exactly what was going on at the time. But I was just so mad about it at the end, when I found out how it really worked at it, it kind of sent me off as, as the straw that broke the camel's back. And I decided I better start learning about this stuff or I'm just going to be ripped off. You know, every time I have an interaction with a financial professional, the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 00:05:24 Yeah. That's kind of gut gut you down the path of really getting into learning personal life.
Speaker 3 00:05:30 You know, I was always had at least a little bit of interest in this stuff, but I was a molecular biology major in college. I wasn't a business major. I didn't take any finance classes. I heard nothing about this in medical school or, or residency at least up to that point. And um, so I, I didn't really have much background and I don't think I'd read a financial book of any kind up to that point. And you know, so I was like, Oh, well I guess I'm making money now. I probably need a financial advisor and let's go talk to one and really had a pretty lousy experience actually in the end.
Speaker 1 00:05:59 Yeah. I think, I think a lot of people are finishing up their training and getting into that point in saying, okay, I haven't learned too much about this personal finance stuff. And I'm about to start making good money. And, and some people have an easy time at making that decision as to whether they seek help from a financial advisor or maybe they just start learning and do it themselves. But a lot of people, we talked to kind of struggle and spin their wheels with that decision. If I'm in that position, I'm starting out in my career and starting to make good money. How do I decide if I, if I want to hire help or, or just kind of go at it myself?
Speaker 3 00:06:33 I think, yeah, the first thing you ought to do is realize this is not an all or none decision. You can hire help for a while and you can later do it on your own, or you can do part of it on your own, or, you know, you can try it for awhile on your own. And if you don't like how things are going, hire somebody it's, you're not getting married to a financial advisor. Uh, you can change advisors, you can hire advisors, you can choose how you're going to use them. Now, maybe the advisor says, I just don't work with clients in that way and that's fine, but there are lots of advisors out there who will let you do what you want to do and, and, you know, give you advice in a way that you want to receive it. So I wouldn't feel limited that, that this is an all or none decision.
Speaker 3 00:07:14 I think that's what a lot of people feel. They feel this pressure that I, I have to, I have to decide, am I going to do this? I don't know. I don't want to pay a bunch of fees, but I don't really know how I want to do it. What should I do? You know, and those are the perfect people. They go meet with a financial planner, get a financial plan in place. And even if you decide to implement it and follow it yourself, that's fine. But at least, you know, you started off on the right foot.
Speaker 2 00:07:36 I think it's also worth noting that, you know, money is a, is a difficult topic in our culture to talk about no one wakes up one day randomly and says, you know what I want to do today? Go talk to a stranger about money, but how I spend my money. You know, there, there was an interesting research study that was done, uh, where a researcher stood in a lab coat and had had his clipboard standing on the corner of a busy intersection. People would walk by as a, Hey, I have two questions, quick research study. Uh, when was the last time you had sex? It's a Tuesday and how much money do you make? And they go, Oh, and they'd storm off. They wouldn't answer the money question. And if you want to test this, just go ask your parents or your classmate, how much money do you have?
Speaker 2 00:08:12 How much debt do you have? What's your net worth? You're never going to get an answer. And so I think that's part of the challenge too, is, is, you know, you're absolutely right Jim, that, uh, it does feel like this really big decision, both because it feels like this longterm relationship that you're getting into, but also like it is a difficult decision. It's, it's a difficult topic to talk about. And we so often see folks who are in some sort of transition, they sort of get forced into going and talking to an advisor, maybe something negative, like, you know, that our family member has died or you're getting divorced, could be a positive. You're having a baby, you're getting married, you're starting a business. There, there are many things that ultimately sort of these transition points that drive it, that sort of force you to have to feel that you feel like you have to go talk to somebody, but I'm with you, Jim, that in the end, like I think everyone, I mean, especially for this audience, if you're making six figures or more, everyone will benefit from talking to a financial advisor.
Speaker 2 00:09:03 Now we can talk about the different structures and the different relationships and all of that. And there's more to parse out there. But in the end, if you're making six figures sitting down with a professional to talk about where you're at, uh, you know, those that, that conversation can save you tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run, depending on if we're talking about student loan programs or, you know, career advice or saving the all, you know, keep your, keeping your expenses low and living like a resident, even when you're a doctor, uh, kind of thing. There's so much that you can do there. So, but yeah, I, I, I highly encourage everyone to, to experience it.
Speaker 1 00:09:35 How do you think stigma plays into it? You know, fearing asking for help, is that, is that a factor
Speaker 2 00:09:40 I'd love your thoughts on this? Because when I was first training and financial planning, doctors were sort of the, the, the quintessential, they never asked for help. They're always experts in their area. They'll never hire a financial advisor. And I did not see that in my career. I worked with a lot of physicians as clients that were happy to delegate and happy to say, like, I'm an expert in my thing. I'm not an expert in your thing, but I do wonder if, you know, culturally and just, I mean, clearly, you know, to, to become a physician, you've gotta be very intelligent, right? Like there, there's just a certain level of aptitude that it takes to get through medical school and, and to become a doctor. And so maybe some of this self pressure expectation that like, I should be an expert in this because I'm smart. I should be able to learn it.
Speaker 3 00:10:21 I mean, people are people and doctors are people, you know, so I think there's a lot of variability around that question. For the most part. I don't think there's some sort of a stigma in going to get financial advice. I think it's probably more of a status symbol. I'm going to go see my money guy, you know, so I don't think there's necessarily a stigma there. I think it's far more likely that they're busy and that is what's keeping them from going to meet with somebody. Um, I think there's a fear of getting ripped off. I think that's very real because they don't know very much about it. And they're, and they've, you know, they've heard stories where they've had a bad experience already. And so I think there's a real fear of losing money because you're getting bad advice, but I don't think there's necessarily a big stigma against going to get good advice.
Speaker 3 00:11:04 I don't think anybody really has a big thing with that. Now lots of people are do it yourselfers. You know, if you're the kind of person that, that Rose your own raft down a river, and you're the kind of person who hangs your own Christmas lights, and you're the kind of person who modes you're online, you know, maybe you're the kind of person that does your own investments too, but other people have no problem whatsoever outsourcing all that stuff. And those sorts of people are probably going to be happier with a good advisor. And when that's the case, the best thing I can do is get them connected with somebody who gives good advice at a fair price,
Speaker 1 00:11:32 This time plan. Do you think that, uh, should a good advisor be saving you time, I guess is the question?
Speaker 3 00:11:38 Well, I mean, you lose a little bit of time meeting with the advisor, right? It takes some time there, but part of that's hopefully education that you'd have to do in some way anyway, but you, you should be getting out of a lot of the chores of investing in financial planning that the advisors be taken care of for you. You shouldn't have to be going in there and rebalancing your account and making the transactions and the contributions and that sort of stuff. So theoretically there ought to be some time saving that at least offsets the time you spend meeting with them, I'm not sure it's a dramatic time save because a lot of that stuff, once you have a plan in place can be automated pretty well. And so I, I don't know that it's, you know, if your advisor tells you they're saving you a hundred hours a year, I think you're probably getting ripped off because it just doesn't take that much to do it. Um, you know, if, if, can they not save you anything that's unlikely to, you know, your doctor, your time's pretty valuable 300 bucks an hour, you know, you should be willing to pay a significant amount to save some serious time.
Speaker 2 00:12:39 Yeah, absolutely. I don't see the time savings component quite as much. I more see it in the, the weight or the burden of the fact that, you know, things aren't getting done and this advisor's taking off your plate and they're actually getting it done. So quite frankly, it may not even be that you're saving time because you weren't doing the things you needed to be doing in the first place or that you're not knocking off that glass. And so a lot of it is just sort of the burden of distraction of having a task list, you know, that you're never going to get to, and just knowing some things are getting done or getting handled the way they need to is, is really rewarding for someone who works in, uh, in, in this type of industry. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:13:15 I mean, mostly what you're paying for is expertise. You want someone who knows what they're doing and you can feel like, okay, he, or she's got this and I can start using my mental energy somewhere else. You know, I can worry about the kids struggling in school, or I can worry about, you know, the practice falling apart, or I can worry about the two patients with complications or whatever. So that mental energy is, is a far bigger savings, I think, than the time actually is. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:13:38 So you were talking about through yourself offers and characteristics. And I think, uh, a lot of people identify with that, but most people, I talked to her, like, I don't know, um, you know, maybe I'm somewhere in the middle, but like what, what other, how does somebody know if they're capable? I think all physicians are capable. Uh, if they, I guess, want to dedicate the time and energy to it, but, uh, maybe that's not the right word, but how do you know if you are the type that should be kind of starting down that path of like trying to figure out how to change your oil or with your findings?
Speaker 3 00:14:10 Well, this is, this is, this is a fascinating subject, right? Cause I interact with all these people online and the vast majority of them are do it yourself. Right? They're hardcore do it yourselves. There's they're like I ain't paying a financial advisor, a hundred bucks, what a rip off. I'm not going to do that. Of course, I'm going to do it myself. This is so easy. It takes me like 20 minutes a year. It's nothing to it. Right. And then I go out in real life and I talked to my partners, right? These are people I work sitting at the computer next to them in the emergency department. I'm basically accessible to them to answer any question. They have guide them through how to make changes in their accounts, whatever, right. I'm there, they see me all the time, several times a month. And I'm more than willing to talk to them about them, about this stuff and help them.
Speaker 3 00:14:50 So you got to ask, well, how many of my partners use a financial advisor? And the answer is 80 or 90%. Right? For example, one of my PAs I've talked to about money stuff for a while. Probably several hours we talked to about this stuff, helped her get her 401k, invested into something reasonable. And, um, and in the end she went and hired an advisor, an advisor that I recommend and just did not want she and her husband didn't want to do it themselves. The other thing you got to keep in mind and you guys know this because your advisors, and this is one reason why I am not an advisor is so much of advice is therapy, right? You're taking two people with different values, different goals, different ideas, different backgrounds, about money. And you're trying to meld them into one financial plan. And that is not the easiest thing in the world to do. Right. I mean, my wife and I have met once a month for the last 20 years to do this. It is not an insignificant undertaking. And some people are on the same page and it works out just fine or they're close enough that it works out just fine. But for many, many couples out there, they need somebody in the middle. And that's a real benefit to those couples to have an advisor and a, you know, whether you call it therapy or financial advice, a lot of people can benefit from it.
Speaker 2 00:16:00 Yeah. I think it's important to know that, that I do believe there's sort of this middle ground Daniel. I think you have the true DIY buyers who no matter how many times we say go hire a financial advisor, it'll be worth it. They just never will. That's just not their personality. And you have, the delegators are on the other side who will hire a financial advisor because they truly need it. And then in the middle we call those the validators. Those are the folks who, who are willing to take some of it on, but do need some help. They want to be sure that they're on the right track. And that's where I, I do think sort of DIY could probably be split into DIY or validator. And then you sort of have the delegator to help sort of define the different personality types that consumers have.
Speaker 2 00:16:37 And if you just look at consumers, it's about a third, a third, a third. So a third of Americans will just never hire a financial advisor. A third are in that validator and a third are those delegators. But you know, we, it would probably be helpful if we sort of talk about our definitions of financial planning. You know, one of the things you mentioned earlier, Jim was, you know, in air quotes, somebody who called themselves a financial advisor, uh, and for the folks listening in the end that that's not a protected term in our space. Anyone can call themselves a financial advisor, a financial planner. You go take a test that, you know, studied 10, 20 hours. Take it. And you, now you're a financial advisor. Uh, you know, and just imagine if anyone could just call themselves a doctor, right. If anyone could just call themselves a physician, what does that do to the perception of your profession?
Speaker 2 00:17:17 What does that do to help difficult? It is to navigate, is this a real professional? Is it not? Because, you know, the, the reason I hired a financial planner and that I, I pay an ongoing fee, uh, and meet with them four to six times a year, uh, uh, is a couple of reasons. One, uh, my wife and I do have to navigate some of these conversations and something is as simple as are we going to pay for our kid's college education? Well, my wife's family paid for hers. I joined the military to pay for my own education. And, and so that is not an easy conversation to navigate both because we have a very opposing views and there's no right answer. There's not a right answer of, should you pay for your kid's college or not? There's just the, it just is. It's just a decision that has to be made.
Speaker 2 00:18:03 And what I find a lot of times are folks who aren't willing to hire an advisor. Aren't willing to sort of navigate that conversation with a, with a objective third party ended up just never making the decision. They never had the conversation. And then in 18 years, your kids going to college and you and your partner on different pages. And suddenly it's like, Oh my gosh, what are we going to do? Like they got into Harvard, we didn't plan for this. And it's not even so much planning for college. It's it is navigating that conversation. There's so much that goes into a financial planning relationship that folks could benefit from. And may not even realize that that is part of the conversation because the one time they met with an advisor, it was just someone who tried to sell them an annuity.
Speaker 3 00:18:39 Yeah. And I think that's the unfortunately experienced. A lot of people have, right? They know they need financial advice. They know they have questions and they go in there and this person sitting on the other side of the desk is listening and remembering the sales training that he got from his insurance company that put them in this chair. And, and the goal is no, you know, whatever they say, see if you can bring it back to the annuity or to whole life insurance or to, you know, these loaded, actively managed high expense ratio, mutual funds, you know, and provide them a solution to their problem. And that's not financial planning, that's product sales. And the problem is a lot of people don't know the difference. They don't know to recognize when someone is giving them objective, unbiased advice that they are paying a reasonable fee for. And I know it seems silly to people that have been doing, you know, fiduciary fee, only planning for a long time, but these are the majority of people out there calling themselves financial advisors are in product sales. And after you've met with two or three or four of these people, you know, it's really hard to want to sit down with anybody in this space. Your trust is just totally destroyed with the financial services industry.
Speaker 2 00:19:43 Yeah. I mean, let's, let's be clear that the financial services industry is the least trusted profession in the country. Right? If you look at a list of groups of people, we're the second lowest trusted, the only people we beat is Congress. Okay. That has a very low bar. And you're absolutely right. We have, as a profession, as an industry, we have earned that negative reputation. Best estimates are only between 10 and 15% of people who call themselves financial advisors are acting as a fiduciary 100% of the time. And so, you know, Daniel, I don't know if you really want to get into the, the, the, the inner workings of the industry, but, you know, in the end, some people only do product sales. Some people go flip between advice and product sales, and sometimes they're your advocate and your fiduciary. Sometimes they're not. And only 10 to 15% are always a fiduciary a hundred percent of the time. And that does make it difficult because it's a, you know, you go interview 10 people, only one of them, statistically is going to actually be working in your best interest. And, and you're going to get a totally different experience. And when you actually work with a fiduciary advisor, yeah. So let's, let's break it down.
Speaker 3 00:20:44 What are the best and worst of, uh,
Speaker 2 00:20:48 Advisers to work with? You're going to hear, you know, as a consumer, you're going to hear a lot about compensation structure, and we'll probably talk about it here. Commissions fees, AUM, or assets under management, which is just a percentage of your assets. I'm a big proponent of, instead of fee, only with which we can talk about what fee only means. I'm a, I'm a proponent of fiduciary only. I want to know that the person I'm talking to always has my best interest at heart. And I know like, again, this audience this, see, this should probably seem like a no brainer, right? Imagine if the physicians like you, weren't sure are you paid by the drug company? And if I take this drug, you get a hundred, you know, a $10,000 check. If I start paying for this, or do you, is this what's best for me?
Speaker 2 00:21:28 Or what if sometimes it's advice? And sometimes it's a drug sale. Like it's absurd that, that our industry is where it is, but I'm, I'm sorry, we're, we're working on changing it, but it's a slow, it's a slow moving, slow moving industry. Um, but in the end, you're looking for someone who's a fiduciary and, and you'll hear it, you'll hear this phrase. Well, I always work in my client's best interest, what that means many times when someone will say that is that they are going to, they're going to try their best, but in the end, they're not legally obligated. To me. A fiduciary duty is a legal obligation that if you violate, you could seek, uh, you know, you, you could seek, uh, you know, repercussions for that. Uh, a lot of folks will say why I will always do what's best for my clients, but they're not legally obligated.
Speaker 2 00:22:09 And the way you can tell that is if they are associated with it with an organization called FINRA, F I N R a FINRA. So FINRA oversees that the sale of financial products, the sec oversees the giving of advice. And what you want is someone who is only associated with either the sec or a state registered, uh, or the, or the state, uh, also oversees financial advice. Uh, you don't want, you know, Indiana, I would shy away from folks who were registered with FINRA because in the end, they don't have a legal obligation to always work in your best interest. Sorry to get overly technical. It's really frustrating. How, like, mostly, I'll say half of financial advisors do not know what we were talking about right now. Okay. Like, because they've been on the other side for so long, there's like, yeah,
Speaker 3 00:22:48 I don't get it. But I agree with you that a fiduciary is kind of a minimum bar. I mean, absolutely. And people are appalled that we even have this discussion, right. I mean, there was a law a little while back that they, they made a big deal of in the industry that they passed this rule that you had to be a fiduciary, but only with regard to retirement accounts, not actually taxable accounts. And then I think he,
Speaker 2 00:23:10 Yeah. Then it got overturned in the court system. So yeah, we don't even have that anymore,
Speaker 3 00:23:14 But I think you got to go beyond there. Cause there are people that have a fiduciary duty to you who don't actually give you good advice because they don't know there's simply still ignorant. They haven't become educated in how all this stuff works. There's a certain amount of education that has to take place. And a lot of people are surprised that the licensing tests to become a financial advisor, to be able to give advice are mostly about compliance issues. There are to learn the laws around things, not actually how to do financial planning, not actually how to invest, not actually how to build a portfolio. That stuff's all really, you have to go out and get it on your own if you're going to be a good advisor. And so it's more than just finding a fiduciary. You've got to find a fiduciary with experience that actually stays up to date on the academic literature and investing.
Speaker 3 00:24:06 And, um, you know, so it's, it's a higher bar and the problem is by the time you recognize all these bars that you've got to get over to make sure you're getting good advice at a fair price. You've now learned enough that if you really want to, you probably can manage this yourself. And so you either get lucky and you fall into a good relationship with a good advisor or you're like I was, and you stumbled into the wrong office and you end up regretting it. It sounds kind of depressing. It's depressing. It is to reconcile that.
Speaker 2 00:24:34 Yeah, I mean, and there is a lot of work. I mean, we, we S uh, as an organization, we sued the sec last year over one of their new rules called regulation, best interest, which sounds a lot like a fiduciary rule and is basically the exact opposite, uh, funny how that works. And so it is from a regulatory environment, something that we're very focused on trying to move, move the move from an industry into a professional move from a sales industry into a true advice profession. And, and, you know, there are some organizations out there who do make it easy, easier at least. And, and so, uh, you know, NAPFA, the national association of personal financial advisors is one, all of their advisors are fee-only. They do tend to work with higher net worth individuals or higher income. And so folks who are listening to this are most likely qualified they're, uh, also like I'll, I'll Pat ourselves on the back ex-wife planning network, where we're, we have, uh, uh, a little bit more, a little bit stricter, uh, restrictions actually.
Speaker 2 00:25:23 So they have to be fee only. They actually have to sign a fiduciary oath, which is posted on our website publicly, so that if they ever tried to not act like a fiduciary, you just come to our website, pull down that signed agreement and, uh, and take that to your, to your lawyer. If you're interested. Uh, we also look at and evaluate their w what's called a broker check or their broker history. So all, any illegal activity, and he finds any, anything like that does get disclosed on, uh, or on it's, uh, it's a government website, but it's called broker check. Uh, and anyone who has a significant, fine, which we classify as $10,000 or more, we, we exclude from membership. We don't allow them to be listed on our website or participate in our community. Uh, and the reason is there some research show that folks who, who got fines over $10,000 tended to be repeat offenders, which I know is shocking.
Speaker 2 00:26:06 And so folks aren't learning their lesson. And so there are some organizations who do make it easier. Uh, but to your point, Jim, like, that's just step one, step one is fiduciary only look for the CFP or certified financial planner designation to us. That's sort of the gold standard baseline. Uh, but it is optional in our industry. There's only about 80,000 CFPs where, where this is about 300,000 financial advisors total. And then you need to start looking for someone, I guess, sort of two pieces, someone who ultimately has an expertise in your specific concerns, your, your specific needs. Uh, and so we talk a lot about having a niche market. And what that means is that, you know, segments of the population experience, sort of these different challenges and different pain points. And if you go work with someone who says, I work with individuals, families, business owners, institutions, and women, which is a quote from a very prominent financial advisory website in our space, like who do they really know what you're dealing with?
Speaker 2 00:27:00 Versus if you go to, you know, run financials website, like it speaks to you as the fact that you're working specifically with physicians, very specific circumstances. And so your expertise is going to help them navigate those situations a lot better than sort of a generic advisor. And so, and then the final piece, Jen, which you touched on and we can talk more about is, are they offering the type of service that aligns with your needs? And so you may find an expert advisor who only works on an, on an ongoing relationship basis. And you say, Hey, I just want a one-time plan or vice versa. Maybe they only work hourly, but you really want them managing your money. So you've gotta be sure they're actually offering the services that match your needs as a, as an individual or family.
Speaker 3 00:27:40 Yeah, I think that's all fair to say, ideally, you have someone that's working with you. The problem is, you know, some of the works with other people like you, the problem is everybody wants to work with physicians and everyone wants to work with successful small business owners, but you know what, there's no advisors out there that work with respiratory therapists. I'm just going to work with respiratory therapists. Well, the reason why as respiratory therapist don't make much money and don't have much money. And so it's very difficult to sustain a practice. And so there is this, uh, you know, no, no margin, no mission for a financial advisor, even someone was trying to do the right thing for the clients, trying to build a practice. You just can't do it. If people don't have any money to pay you and the going rate for a financial advisors, probably 150 to $400 an hour, even if you're just charging a flat, hourly rate, they've got to be able to afford that, you know, this is going to cost a few thousand dollars. And when you're making $35,000 a year, it's really hard for people to get over that threshold. And so then of course, it seems like every fund now granted in a very specific space, but it seems like every financial advisor I'd run into, wants to work with doctors. You know, they rarely turned down a doctor client, but you know, it's nice to have somebody that works with you, but let's be honest about how that actually works.
Speaker 2 00:28:57 Yeah. Yeah. It's one thing to have it as, as a marketing tool. It's another thing to actually have the expertise. Right. And, and, you know, especially in this space, I mean, I remember one of my first clients was an anesthesiologist and I was the generic advisor. I was 25, started my own firm, I'd work with anybody. And I worked with an anesthesiologist. She was single making 500 grand a year, had, you know, had no student loan debt cause she had paid it all off and then was looking for help. And I remember navigating some of these conversations that I was not an expert in. I had to really study up on, you know, I don't remember it's something like 80% payout with a 90% payout and we were negotiating more, you know, more vacation time and all that. And it was a real great learning experience for me.
Speaker 2 00:29:39 But, you know, for benefit, like it'd be great for her to be able to work with someone who has had a hundred of those conversations, not me, who it was the first time I had navigated that conversation. I think she ended up in a really great spot, but I did spend a lot of time trying to understand that the world of, of hospitals and just the number of interactions. And again, I'm not an expert working with physicians that that's your game, but I, it is important to recognize that in the end, even for our advisors and we've really worked to, to sort of restructure the way that advice is delivered in the fee structure and all that, most of our advisors are working with clients who are making six figures or more. I mean, just in general though, we have some that, that are working with, with folks who are, you know, maybe in that 60 to a hundred thousand range, but in the end, even our advisors are working with a hundred households that are making a hundred thousand or more, which, which is a lot of physicians, but not necessarily all of them.
Speaker 3 00:30:29 Right. But that's what I'm talking about is that that serves 20% of America. Sure. You know, and the other 80% they're left to, uh, you know, watch mad money and listen to the Dave Ramsey show and, you know, maybe get betterment to manage their Roth IRA, you know? And so it's just, there's a huge gap between what's offered by the financial services industry and what's needed by the families of America. And luckily for my audience, you know, higher earning professionals, they don't have any trouble at all finding a financial advisor. They want to work with them and even specialize in their situations. And so they're really lucky that way, but I'm not sure they realize just how lucky they are, that there are advisors that are experts in their sort of situation.
Speaker 2 00:31:11 We are seeing advisors that are, that are getting creative, they're trying new, uh, you know, new models. It's sort of like, not everyone can afford a personal trainer to gym. And so you start to see the rise of Peloton and CrossFit, right. Uh, and you're starting to see these more groups scaled, scaled offerings. And, and we're starting to see advisors offering that, you know, so right now, most of the, the, the sexy logos and the branding that you know, of companies you just mentioned are really only doing investment advice, which is, you know, for me, a very different service than financial planning, just because that's a highly scaled high margin business, but we are starting to see more investment in this area because there is this recognition that in general Americans lack financial literacy, it's not something we teach at any level of education, uh, in order to graduate from the university of Georgia.
Speaker 2 00:31:55 I had to be sure. I took a class that met the state constitution requirement tests, which means I knew enough about the Georgia state constitution to graduate. Did not have to take a personal finance class though, uh, and could take on, you know, $60,000 in student loans without, you know, without so much more than a signature. So we are seeing this transition. Uh, so you're right, that we can't call ourselves a profession until we're able to work with the majority of Americans. And right now the, the, the industry simply doesn't, but you know, for, for this audience, you, you absolutely can. And I would say, should hire a financial advisor, uh, the format in which you do that and the services and all of that we can talk about. But, uh, I do think everyone can benefit from that objective third party, giving advice and, and helping you really, uh, you know, expose blind
Speaker 1 00:32:40 Spots. I think when it comes down to is value. So is the value you're getting greater than the dollar you're paying, but the problem within our industry is in a lot of cases, people don't know the dollars that they're paying, right, or even product sales problem. That's, that's the whole reason. The, uh, that was the lobbying argument for the overturning of the fiduciary rule that they were trying to pass is that the average American needed the commission-based advisor so that they could have access to the services. That was their argument that they won. I mean, they ultimately overturned it based on that. So I guess my question is, if you're, if you're working with the free advisor or, you know, you don't know what you're paying an advisor, do you fire them? Is there a place for them whole, man, you're going to put us on the spot on this one.
Speaker 1 00:33:23 Let me just say there is a world, or there is a need for product sales. Okay. In the end, I wish that you could go get a good life insurance policy without paying a commission right now, the way that industry is set up in this country that is not easily possible. You can't on the investment side, you really can't on the insurance side. And so there is a time where ultimately you need to, there, you need to purchase a product and the person selling it is going to be a product salesperson. Should they call themselves an advisor? Oh, well, no, because they're not giving advice. They should call themselves stock brokers and insurance salespeople like they used to
Speaker 3 00:33:55 For an agent is the nice new agent. There we go. Agent broker sales, and then has got the, uh, you know, this negative connotation. It's true. It's what they are. And of course advisor has the positive connotation, but that's not actually what they are agents of neutral term. And, you know, being an insurance agent is a noble thing. You're protecting people's families from terrible things happening, you know, disability and death and the house burning down and getting sued for millions. It is not a bad thing. A bad thing is selling people, products they don't need. But you know, that's the part of that is up to the individual to educate themselves. And of course, when you go into buy a used car, you don't ask the person selling cars. Should I buy a car? You know, it's like going to the barber and asking if you need a haircut, you ask them, tell me about the features of this car you have here.
Speaker 3 00:34:44 And you just had, you have a different mindset. Well, when you go to buy a car, you are in that mindset and you were prepared for that. When you go to buy an insurance policy, you are not prepared to be in that mindset. You're there in an advice mindset. And the problem is you're now interacting with somebody who is in a product sales mindset. So is there a place for product sales? Certainly in, in insurance, there still is. Cause it's the only way you can buy when someone's going to make a commission off it, no matter how you buy it. But, uh, I agree in investments. No, there really isn't a role at all. There shouldn't be anybody out there that you're not doing people as a favor, you know, to give them bad advice. There's no price too low for bad advice. So going in and, Oh, this is great. You only got to pay 8% of the thousand dollars. You invest to this guy. That's only 80 bucks, but he also puts you in a terrible mutual fund. That's not good advice. Uh, and so I really don't think there's, there's a place there. I'd love to see those guys all run out of business and I've been working at it for the last decade.
Speaker 1 00:35:43 Well, what if my guy is like the special one? Like he,
Speaker 3 00:35:48 Well, you're good people. They're good people. They're trying to do the right thing, but they are faced with this terrible conflict of interest all the time. Number one, number two, they do not get the education they need. The education they get is in product sales. Here's how you sell the people. And that is not the education you need to give good advice. So is it possible for you to get paid on that model? You know, actually give people good advice, I suppose as possible, but I certainly wouldn't count on it. And uh, I think those guys, a lot of, most of the time they recognize what I'm doing is probably not a good idea. Let's get out of this big shop, go open my own, place up, hang a shingle out. And, uh, and let's start doing this the right way, because this is embarrassing. I can't spend my life doing this.
Speaker 2 00:36:32 Yeah. Unfortunately, you know, a lot of the air quote, financial advisors do use the relationship. Hey, we're buddy, buddy. We served on a board together. We go golfing together. Or our kids go to school together as a way of sort of like, Oh, well my guy's a good guy or my girl's a good girl. Like, there'll be fine. You know? And in the, the conflict of interest that you're talking about, I mean, let's just think back, you know, we're sitting here in April 20, 20, COVID hits I'm, I'm an insurance salesperson and I know you need a million dollar life insurance policy. My w my wife just got laid off. The kids are now at home, freaking out, and I can sell you a $1 million term life insurance policy, or I can sell you a $1 million face value on a whole life insurance policy. And the difference of commission is the different sort of a thousand dollars on the whole, on the, on the term, but $10,000 on the whole life, potentially, depending on the product, which 1:00 AM I going to sell you? And I love to believe that I'm a good person. I'm always going to do what's in the best interest of my client, but I'm in this situation where like, my wife just got laid off and I don't know if I'm going to have a business in three months. So maybe I will sell that 10,000 our policy, because it's not a bad policy. I'm not harming you. It's just not the best part.
Speaker 3 00:37:41 There's a hundred ways to justify it, right. I'm helping, you know, cause you have to pay this premium every month or now you'll be sure to have something because this policy never goes away or whatever. Right. And of course the training is from the
Speaker 1 00:37:53 Opened up the whole life can of worms. Here. We are
Speaker 2 00:37:58 Good to know Jim and I are on the same side of that one,
Speaker 3 00:38:00 Everybody. But those who sell it are on the same side.
Speaker 2 00:38:03 For the most part, if you're being pitched whole life or an annuity, you need a second opinion. Like Jay, just plain and simple that there is a place in the world for those products and they are extremely rare. Um, so we'll just use that as like a quick rule of thumb, but
Speaker 1 00:38:16 Not universal life. Right?
Speaker 2 00:38:19 Anything other than term life, the word variable universal whole, anything other than just term life insurance.
Speaker 3 00:38:26 That's universal life. That's like an index fund.
Speaker 2 00:38:30 No downside, no downside risk. It's the one
Speaker 1 00:38:33 You're writing about. And the other day, Jim, or you put out a bank
Speaker 2 00:38:36 On life.
Speaker 3 00:38:36 Oh, the bank on yourself. Yeah. This is a fascinating concept actually, when you really dive into it, but the amount of hype surrounding it is just incredible. And the other problem with it of course, is there's all these people who sell people on this idea, but don't actually give them the policy that allows them to do it. They instead sell them a policy that maximizes their commission. So it's an interesting idea. There's a few people that really get into it. I'm not that into it, but I do enjoy pointing out how it actually works to my readers, which also time once most of them understand that they're not nearly as interested in it as they were before.
Speaker 2 00:39:12 Yeah. Daniel and you, you did make a good point earlier talking about, you know, air quotes again, free. It, it is important to know no one works for free in a lot of people in our space. We will use this phrase, Oh, don't worry. You don't pay me. The company pays me. Well, who do you think pays the company. You do it just cause the check goes to the company. Doesn't mean you're not paying it when you are. When you're working with an advisor, you should be able to ask the question. I want to know exactly how much I'm paying you. And they should be able to answer fairly rapidly exactly how much you were paying them. So my financial advisor, I pay him $5,000 a year, 1,250 bucks a quarter. I know exactly how much he's making. That is the only money he will ever make from me is that check that I, right now, if you're working with an insurance salesman, they are an insurance agent. They can still tell you exactly how much their commission is now. They may be hesitant to. And if so, you got to ask that question, right? Obviously the listeners here sort of live in this world too, of, of, uh, not very clear payment structures and all of that. But obviously that comes from a whole host of regulatory issues,
Speaker 3 00:40:11 Reforming healthcare, if you want, that's a mess. You want a bigger mess than financial services, healthcare and a bigger mess claim to being in a profession where the, uh, you know, the pain.
Speaker 2 00:40:24 Yeah. But you should know exactly how your advisor's paid, how that fee is determined exactly what services you're getting. And in the end, exactly how much you're paying, because you should be able to evaluate, I'm paying $5,000 a year. Am I getting at least $5,000 of value? I'd say more like 10 or $15,000 a year of value to, to compensate for the fee that I'm paying. And then at the end that it's up to your advisor to prove value. It's up to them to show you that that they're worth the fee that you're, that you're paying.
Speaker 3 00:40:51 As long as we're talking about these, let's talk about a fair fee. You mentioned your advisor charges you a $5,000. The number I've thrown out most of the time is a four figure amount. That's what good financial advice on a cost you a year. But a lot of these docs ended up building a significant amount of wealth. You know, they may build a portfolio there's three, four, five, $10 million. And there's this classic idea out there of this 1% of assets under management fee. Well, 1% of $8 million is 80 grand a year. I mean, that's a lot of money. A lot of families live off less than that. A lot of retirees think they can have a very nice retirement with 80 grand a year. Uh what's what's the, what do you think is a fair to pay for financial advice?
Speaker 2 00:41:36 I'm in a little bit different world on this, just cause I I'm a, I'm a free market guy. So I say like fairs, whatever a consumer's willing to pay, as long as they know how much they're paying. And you're absolutely right. That 1% sounds a lot less than $80,000. And so this is why I pushed like ask your advisor, how much are you paying? I have seen clients situations that they should be paying $80,000 a year because they are able to get that amount of value from, from the planner. That is a rare case. Okay. That's not a normal case. Uh, and so it kinda depends on the services we're talking about. If it includes investments
Speaker 3 00:42:07 And more of my lawn and washing my car while they're out.
Speaker 2 00:42:10 Yeah. I mean, you know, just because financial planning can extend into, you know, especially, you know, it'd be, it'd be more than a million dollar net worth, but you start getting into some really extensive estate planning and tax planning and tax savings. And th they are ultimately, you're earning that fee because of their expertise. But again, that's a rare case that I think in the end, you need to be able to see what you're paying and evaluate. Do you, are you, do you feel like you're getting value? Would I pay $80,000 a year right now for a financial advisor? No, but you know, I feel like I'm getting $5,000 or more than 5,000 of value, but I also could have hired someone cheaper. You know, there was someone who would have done it for 1200 there's someone who had done it for two. I went with someone who I felt like it was an expert in my situation.
Speaker 2 00:42:51 And, and I ended up being right. They saved me a bunch of money on my taxes. Again, I'm trained as a financial advisor and they still went back and found a pretty major tax error that my accountant had made and saved us, saved us three years worth of fees because of that error. And so, you know, I, I don't think there's a one size fits all. I will say research shows that, um, clients are actually willing to pay somewhere around 2% of income. We talk a lot about assets, but, but a feed for planning, especially for this audience, that if you've got a lot of student loan debt and you're like, well, 1% of nothing, right? All I got debts, I'm not, what am I paying on one to two or one and a half to 2% of income is actually a good benchmark. You're making a hundred grand, 1500 to 2000. Makes sense. If you're making a million a year, you may be paying 15 to $20,000 a year, but that actually can be a benchmark for sort of what advisors are charging, what clients are willing to pay, uh, and which is sort of a proxy for, for the value that they're getting from that relationship.
Speaker 3 00:43:42 Sure. Let's go back to your comment about free market. I think that's also good. A free functioning is a great way to set prices. This idea of value though, I'm going to push back on, right? Let's say we have somebody come in. They're terribly short of breath. They come into the ER, they're about to die, right? So I put a breathing tube down and put them on a ventilator. They go in the ICU for a few days. They come back out and they go on and have a nice life. What is the value I just provided that, let's say that somebody that makes a million dollars a year, right? I'm not, I might've just provided them $30 million of value, but anything near that would be crazy. Right? What do I get to charge? I turn it, I think that the charge is probably 200 bucks is probably what I get paid to put a breathing tube in that man. And that's because that's what the market pace. Right? And so it isn't really about value. It's about looking around at everybody else, offering that advice and saying, well, here's somebody doing it for 15,000. Here's somebody doing it for 8,000, you know, and I'm going to take that guy. That's only charged me 8,000. If I think that the services are comparable and I know it's always hard to come in here.
Speaker 2 00:44:52 Right. Right. And that's the, that's the hard part that
Speaker 3 00:44:56 Just comparing it to the value. You also have to look around and see what the market is offering.
Speaker 2 00:45:00 Absolutely. No, you're, you're absolutely right. That, that to me, in a free market or in a fair market, that they access to unlimited information. All of the things we learned in econ one Oh one, the price is a proxy for value because in the end, people charge more when they're providing more value. Now obviously there some folks charge more and provide less value. And so you do sort of have to weed through that, but I can absolutely sit you down with a financial advisor that will charge you $1,200 for a plan. And I can sit you down with one who will charge you a hundred grand, let's say 10 grand. I don't know your financial situation. And the one who who's charging you 10 grand will be infinitely more value. You will get so much more value from having worked with that advisor. So I'm not necessarily advocating for value based pricing, which is sort of a new thing and like the accounting world.
Speaker 2 00:45:43 But you know, there, there is sort of there's the hard costs or the hard savings. My advisor saves me money on taxes on, on investment fees. Uh, and then you start to get into some of these. Like my advisor was sure that I actually signed up for the life insurance policy. One of the reasons I'm not the biggest fan of one-time financial plans. Cause that's where planners tell you what to do, but then they never checked back to see if you did it. And the difference between telling me to get a life insurance policy and being sure I actually get one for my family is worth a lot. And so then you sort of have these, these intangible benefits. What's the value of having a life insurance policy? Well, it depends on, on ultimately what happens. And then you get into the truly intangible where we talk about peace of mind taking that mental weight, that weight off our mental shoulders, but also someone to navigate this conversation with my wife and I about college planning or about TA about business or in all of these things that we talk about. Uh, the, the, the value is not always a hard dollar.
Speaker 3 00:46:37 This is sort of stuff to do with yourself. There's pushback against they're like, I'm not going to pay somebody two grand a year to make sure I actually got the life insurance policy.
Speaker 2 00:46:45 And as long as you're actually getting it done, okay.
Speaker 3 00:46:48 Talk to my wife and we decided how much we're going to pay for college. You know, that that's the pushback you get is you're like, I just needed someone to explain to me the rules of an HSA, you know, or whatever.
Speaker 2 00:46:56 There's an absolute place for that. I don't mean to dis I don't mean to discount that at all. Uh, if you're someone who will actually get it done, and I'm someone who typically gets the task done that my financial advisor told me to do about 36 hours before the meeting, because I noticed on Sunday night, I got a meeting on Tuesday morning, so I'd knock it out. I'm like, Oh yeah, I forgot. Uh, and, and that's just my personality,
Speaker 3 00:47:16 The service. Do you need to pay somebody that makes three or $400 an hour? Or can you get that service from someone who makes $25 an hour?
Speaker 2 00:47:24 Well, I don't know what 25. I do think my advisor's expertise is where like my is, is, is an expert in certain areas that I'm willing to pay additional funds for.
Speaker 3 00:47:34 Right. But I'm talking about the nagging function, right?
Speaker 2 00:47:37 Yeah. I mean the, the, yeah, I, there is more to it than that because unfortunately, you know, I, and I've dealt with these situations with clients who say, okay, you're not getting life at church, not getting life in church. Well, why the answer is not, I'm busy. Usually sometimes it's like, it's connected to something from their childhood. You talked about being a therapist sometime it's like something that their grandfather got sold, a life insurance policy. So they don't trust life insurance. And so it's not about just nagging someone to get it done. It's about navigating a real emotional conversation that has to do with money and, and, and getting down to the root of really why something's happening or why something's not. So, you know, to your point, I do think you need to really assess yourself, really understand, are you someone who wants to delegate?
Speaker 2 00:48:16 Do you just want to, you just want a one-time plan. And as long as you're implementing the plan, you're keeping up with it. You're, you're navigating those conversations. So you're just fine paying every couple of years, you know, whatever, 1500 to two grand for financial plan, I think that's absolutely appropriate. But if you're like me and, and, you know, as the CEO, I got things to do and, and, and life insurance, you know, getting that plan in place wasn't top of the list, or it didn't rise to the top of list. So, you know, ultimately we needed that relationship. So there's not a one size fits all. There's a lot of models that ultimately accommodate who you are, what you, what you're looking for in the stage of life that you're in.
Speaker 1 00:48:50 I talked to somebody the other day that they were looking for access. They, the guy that they were working with, or the current advisor they had was they were just having trouble scheduling with them. And I think that they were running into a capacity issue and support issue and that sort of thing. And they're just like, I want to pay more, basically what they were saying is I want to pay more to get, get the job done because my current advisor is just running into issues where we're not really, no, I can't even get ahold of them. Like, um, I'm having trouble, uh, getting it done in the first place. So I, I think that there's, I guess, a limit on,
Speaker 3 00:49:25 Yeah, you can't go too low for sure. At least, and still make a reasonable living.
Speaker 1 00:49:30 It's a, it's a fine balance. Well, as we start to wrap up, I'm curious, what do you, what do you guys think about the future of financial advice? What does it, what does it look like? Maybe five, 10, 15 years from now?
Speaker 3 00:49:40 I can tell you what I hope it looks like there's a lot more focus put on the financial planning piece. And the investment management piece becomes more and more automated, more and more model driven, more and more plug and chug rather than people coming in, not being willing to pay for financial planning, which is probably where most of the value is added and thinking that they are getting all this benefit of beating the market by paying an advisor to choose the right funds or the right stocks or time to market for them or whatever. I'd like to see people be much more willing to pay for the actual financial planning work, because that's where the bang for your buck is.
Speaker 2 00:50:17 Agreed. I, I hope that, uh, yeah, we, we continue to, to move away and we are in the process this, but moving away from, from, you know, the selling point is, is beating the market. Because let me just tell you right now, and I'm going to get emails about this. After, after this goes live, no one beats the market on a risk adjusted basis. No one, it just doesn't happen. Okay. And if your person's telling you, they can, they can't. Okay. And I can, there's a lot of tricks to make it look like they can, but they can not, no one beats the market. I do hope that as a profession, people talk about investment management and financial planning. Like they're two separate professions because they are, uh, those are two very different services. And, and to your point, Jim, that, that financial planning becomes the prominent service that, that when you're talking to an advisor, you know, they're fiduciary that, you know, they work in your best interest, that, that much of the task driven stuff like even getting a life insurance policy is a lot easier.
Speaker 2 00:51:09 You can do it without paying a commission. Uh, and, and hopefully without that conflict of interest, uh, but I do hope we can start to build trust and as an industry with, with ultimately consumers, because we've spent a lot of years, uh, earning the distrust that we have. And there are a lot of really great, very skilled, very educated, very smart financial advisors who are helping a lot of people. But unfortunately we haven't done a good enough job as an industry of weeding out those who aren't, uh, and, and ultimately they sour the entire relationship or the entire perception. Uh, and so I do think some of this is going to be solved regulatory from a regulatory perspective. It's something we're very involved in. Uh, it'll also just be, it it'll come from people like you, Jim, that, that are ultimately educating a lot of people who now know what the word fiduciary means.
Speaker 2 00:51:53 Eight, five, 10 years ago, no one walked in my office said, I want to hire a fiduciary. Now they do. They don't know what it means, but they know they need one, you know? And, uh, and John Oliver's 401k, fiduciary, you know, pitch, whatever that thing was watched, like 30 million times, they were like, what is a fiduciary again? Uh, now, now that's a common vernacular. People who are hiring a financial advisor, I'm just so excited to see us move that direction. Yeah. That's good stuff. I don't think I've ever said the word fiduciary more times in 45 minutes. So
Speaker 3 00:52:21 Yeah, exactly. I was counting to do it as it needs to grow into a profession, you know, and I think maybe, you know, if you read some Jack Bogle, maybe there was a time when people looked at it and managing other people's money is more of a profession, but somewhere in there, the industry lost its way maybe in the eighties, I don't know. And, uh, and started going after, how can we just milk them for more money? And, um, you know, it's, it's the American marketplace, it's the, uh, you know, this is capitalism. People are trying to make money. Everyone's trying to build their own successful business. Uh, but at the end of the day, it is a service profession. You're managing people's money and their retirement and their ability to care for grandma and send their kids to college. And, you know, and it really needs to be looked at that way. So hopefully it will, as the years go by, I think it's getting better. I think I've seen even just in the time I've been blogging over the last decade, I think I've seen some pretty significant changes in the industry. You know, the numbers you throw out that we're up to 10 to 15% fiduciaries, that's way better than it was when I started a decade ago. I think it was only five back then. So if we've doubled or tripled, that's a win in my book. Real financial planning is a helping
Speaker 2 00:53:26 Profession. And that's what I tell young people getting like, this is a helping profession. There's just a lot of folks who aren't doing the helping side. And so, you know, you should feel like you're working with someone who's in a helping profession when, when you hire a good financial advisor. Yup. Awesome guys,
Speaker 1 00:53:41 You guys can find
[email protected]. They got tons of content. You got, you got a conference coming up, right.
Speaker 3 00:53:47 Oh, is coming up next March? Yep. It's going to be live, but not in person. We don't think the pandemic is going to quite be over enough that, that it'll, that we'll be able to do that. So hopefully 20, 22, we'll be able to do a live in person again, but it's going to be a great conference. The cool thing about doing such a big chunk of the virtual is we can have way more content in it because I don't have to fly everybody out. And I don't have to wedge it all into the conference right. Into a certain set limit of time. So we've got about 50% more content than we had last year for about half the price. So it's going to be really good.
Speaker 1 00:54:17 It sounds like a win-win y'all had an, a CME, right?
Speaker 3 00:54:20 Like DME for that. Yeah. I think we're going to be getting 17 credits to CME for, for the conference.
Speaker 1 00:54:25 Yeah, that's great. And Allen, you can find Alan at Alan Moore, financial.com X Y planning, NEC network.com. Uh, they got, they have all kinds of great content for advisors and consumers. I'm sure there'll be a few advisors listening. And so if you're not currently a member of X, Y planning network, you should definitely look into it, guys. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate chatting with you guys. It's been fun. Thanks Daniel. It's a pleasure to be here
Speaker 4 00:54:48 As always. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you found this valuable, please give us a review on iTunes and share with a friend. Also check out our
[email protected] for all sorts of additional content. See you. Next time. Finance for physicians is not an investment tax legal or financial advisor. All content included in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial tax for legal advice. Material presented is believed to be from reliable sources and no representations are made by finance for physicians as to another party's informational accuracy or completeness, all information or ideas provided should be discussed in detail with an advisor accountant or legal counsel prior to the implementation. You don't have an advisor or would like a second opinion. Feel free to check out our website for recommended advisors.
